Do you "fix" your sizes

[Boudica]

Perhaps you might want to do something about your quadbivalency.

 

[Bazzer]

This is a discussion we've had here a few times with some disagreement. Lets say you are making a lit letter sign that says HOUSING. You need to size the letters up to 18" tall but the length comes out to 82.719". Do you.....

A) leave as nature intended at 82.719"?
B) round it up to 83"?
C) round it up to nice even number of 84" because odd numbers are just that, odd?

If the letter height is 18”. The length is irreverlent

This is a discussion we've had here a few times with some disagreement. Lets say you are making a lit letter sign that says HOUSING. You need to size the letters up to 18" tall but the length comes out to 82.719". Do you.....

A) leave as nature intended at 82.719"?
B) round it up to 83"?
C) round it up to nice even number of 84" because odd numbers are just that, odd?

if your letter height is 18. The length is irrelevant.

 

[Bobby H]

I have seen plenty of sign codes from cities or shopping centers dictate size maximums, either in terms of inches or percentage of a store front's width or height. But I have never seen a city require a sign be built exactly to a specific length in order to get an installation permit.

I size the letters in most of my designs according to the cap letter height. I let the lengths flow out to however long they need to be. There are some occasions where I'll adjust letter spacing so the string of letters hits a round number in inches. Channel letters on a raceway is a good example. I'll make those where they're at least hitting a round number in inches, if not a multiple of 3 or 6 inches.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

If it's a permit issue, round it to what you need on the paperwork. I stand by my argument that people can't read a tape measure with any precision. No inspector is climbing up on a ladder to argue over 1/8" either. Hell, the bend in the tape measure might be more than that cuz he's gonna be on his own up there. You're not gonna go hold the other end for him while he tries to gig you for a code violation.

 

[Scotchbrite]

If the letter height is 18”. The length is irreverlent

if your letter height is 18. The length is irrelevant.

That is kind of my point. It doesn't really matter if the length is 82.87" in the grand scheme of things. But I can't select it in Flexi and see 82.87" in the design editor box without resizing it to a nice whole number of 83". Then I think I could just stretch a little more to be 84" which is a nice even number and also 7' which is even better. Or as Gino mentioned, I can just adjust kerning a little.

I'm talking about a mental issue here. Like I'm the only one in our office that can't leave a sign at some fraction of a size. It drives me nuts when I open someone else's files and nothing is sized to a nice whole number.

It's a mental glitch, I know.

 

[Bobby H]

That is kind of my point. It doesn't really matter if the length is 82.87" in the grand scheme of things. But I can't select it in Flexi and see 82.87" in the design editor box without resizing it to a nice whole number of 83". Then I think I could just stretch a little more to be 84" which is a nice even number and also 7' which is even better. Or as Gino mentioned, I can just adjust kerning a little.

Generally, I try to avoid distorting fonts out of their normal proportions. This can be especially critical for something like a channel letter sign. Years later if the sign gets damaged and needs cracked or broken letter faces replaced it will still be a fairly simple job even in the event of the original art file somehow being lost. The artwork can be re-built easily and the replacement letter faces will fit. If the lettering is distorted then the original art file will be needed, otherwise the crew will have to cut replacement faces from patterns they get from the existing sign.

Variable Fonts pose as much a hazard in art files as distorted fonts. When I use them for something like channel letters I keep track of what variable instances are used in printed sign specs. That way it's possible to re-build the artwork accurately if the original art file is lost.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

To be fair, for panels, I will always make them a whole number. It makes the installer's lives just a touch easier to divide something simple when centering. Also there's no good godd*mned reason to cut a panel to 47 9/32" across. I'm looking at you Danny! (This was the same sales guy who would use dimension tools, make the text so small it couldn't be read, then type in his own dimensions. Thanks for f*cking up my whole afternoon on that!

cant you just fold the panel in half a put a little crease at your center mark? No tape measure needed.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Don't sell yourself short here, we all make modifications to make stuff right without consulting the customer. This stuff always comes up, and your job is to make it look right, you are the professional in this situation.
It feels off, especially talking with some big executive type customer, to tell them what is the better option, like stacked copy vs horizontal, but they really do expect you to tell them what is best. Don't be afraid to act like you know what you're doing, even when you don't! They called you to come take care of their signage needs, right? Now sometimes you have the micromanaging/controlling sort of customer who knows what they want, in such a situation it's best to let them make their own mistakes and just facilitate the process, and give them that garbled mess of text they insisted on...

The crazy thing about this one was that the guy was so adamant about placement on the vehicle. He's been that way every step of the way. It looked bizzare to me but I let him do it because it was ultimately his vehicle. I tried to lead with suggestions but he wasn't having it. He wanted it "his way". Fine.
He never realized that the lettering was "off". He just wanted it to look aesthetically pleasing. And it did.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Honestly I prefer backing up, closing one eye, and sticking my thumb up with my tongue betwixt my lips, then cocking my head just a touch to one side. I feel like it drives a sense of confidence in me for the customer.

Agreed. Tape measures are for amateurs.

 

[Scotchbrite]

To be fair, for panels, I will always make them a whole number. It makes the installer's lives just a touch easier to divide something simple when centering. Also there's no good godd*mned reason to cut a panel to 47 9/32" across. I'm looking at you Danny! (This was the same sales guy who would use dimension tools, make the text so small it couldn't be read, then type in his own dimensions. Thanks for f*cking up my whole afternoon on that!

That's part of my reasoning, it makes it easier thru the entire process if the numbers are easy to measure and divide up.

Speaking of typing in dimensions on the tool; I think the worst mistake I've made was converting a dimension label from feet to inches. 6'-0" became 60". Luckily it was caught before it was an issue.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Generally, I try to avoid distorting fonts out of their normal proportions. This can be especially critical for something like a channel letter sign. Years later if the sign gets damaged and needs cracked or broken letter faces replaced it will still be a fairly simple job even in the event of the original art file somehow being lost. The artwork can be re-built easily and the replacement letter faces will fit. If the lettering is distorted then the original art file will be needed, otherwise the crew will have to cut replacement faces from patterns they get from the existing sign.

Variable Fonts pose as much a hazard in art files as distorted fonts. When I use them for something like channel letters I keep track of what variable instances are used in printed sign specs. That way it's possible to re-build the artwork accurately if the original art file is lost.

I've done 1 or 2 signs where I substituted a letter because I didn't like the way it looked in the font I was using. When I do that I think "I'd hate to be someone that has to figure out the font I used for this...."

 

[Scotchbrite]

Like, converted by hand you mean?

I was typing in the dimension instead of letting Flexi auto-fill it in.

 

[Geneva Olson]

That's part of my reasoning, it makes it easier thru the entire process if the numbers are easy to measure and divide up.

Speaking of typing in dimensions on the tool; I think the worst mistake I've made was converting a dimension label from feet to inches. 6'-0" became 60". Luckily it was caught before it was an issue

your dimensional tool issue reminds me of when I taught middle school math. 2/5 is not .25.
And if you ever follow google maps, she always says, 'in a quarter mile..." when you are .4 miles away.

 

[Boudica]

I've done 1 or 2 signs where I substituted a letter because I didn't like the way it looked in the font I was using. When I do that I think "I'd hate to be someone that has to figure out the font I used for this...."

So it's YOU!

 

[Scotchbrite]

So it's YOU!

Always

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Right! And he's lying on dimension tool callouts!

Now I have done that, why change the file when just round up the dimension on the callout to make it look prettier. We aren't working for NASA here

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Well when Chip cuts the panel to 24", and Dale just hits print, you get a print that won't cover the whole panel.
Or when you know it needs to fit a frame, but not sure if you need to stretch the art (that's already stretched) to cover every inch of panel, or if it's just their godawful logo, and don't you dare distort it. As a production manager, I'd rather never talk to the sales guys about who's pea brained idea it was to 'insert asshat decision here'. I miss the good old days when I didn't worry with overall performance, and instead as long as I had my part right but Jimbo f*cked his part up, then I was on top of the world.
Now I'm all hung up on what a return trip is going to cost because someone pulled the trimcap off the face, and a crane rental was involved...

Tell your friends Chip and Dale to communicate better. Listening is key.
Nothing ever goes right when a crane rental is involved. We setup a 110 ton AT last week to unload trucks that were supposed to load at 9 and be here at 11am on monday. Guy calls at 8pm Friday and pushes it back to tues, fine. Everything's all set, 10:30 Tuesday guys here hanging counterweights, all setup and waiting. 12, no trucks. Call the guy and he said they're late but will be heading my way shortly. 1pm, call, no answer, text, no response. Have my wife call, no answer. 2pm he calls and says they just showed up and are loading and should be there by 4:30 and second truck at 6pm. Told him it's too late and will need to come back at 7am. Then the truck driver calls all bent out of shape, wants to drag the load off his landoll at my shop so he can go home, says we can move it in the morning. Nope. Then asks if he can park and sleep in my yard. Nope. 8 hour bill for a 1 hour job and of course I look like the idiot.

 

[Boudica]

Tell your friends Chip and Dale to communicate better. Listening is key.
Nothing ever goes right when a crane rental is involved. We setup a 110 ton AT last week to unload trucks that were supposed to load at 9 and be here at 11am on monday. Guy calls at 8pm Friday and pushes it back to tues, fine. Everything's all set, 10:30 Tuesday guys here hanging counterweights, all setup and waiting. 12, no trucks. Call the guy and he said they're late but will be heading my way shortly. 1pm, call, no answer, text, no response. Have my wife call, no answer. 2pm he calls and says they just showed up and are loading and should be there by 4:30 and second truck at 6pm. Told him it's too late and will need to come back at 7am. Then the truck driver calls all bent out of shape, wants to drag the load off his landoll at my shop so he can go home, says we can move it in the morning. Nope. Then asks if he can park and sleep in my yard. Nope. 8 hour bill for a 1 hour job and of course I look like the idiot.

 

[Aaron Hunter]

If it has structure, lamps, or a permit...I make em proper measurements to a 1/4"(unless it's pre-existing). Everything else is free game

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Ughhh, always seems like the bigger the crane, the worse it'll pan out! We spent 3 weeks trying to get two cranes to one jobsite to hang a frame and banner. Finally the company said they had the second crane on a jobsite that would probably be there another month, so unless we wanna wait until then... I'll be damned if we didn't end up with 2 different crane companies on site at the same time to get it done, meanwhile the customer thinks you're yanking his chain...
Only sweet piece of relief was that very same crane didn't get 'oversized load' decals applied, because it was at a different jobsite for weeks on end when I did the rest of their trucks. They got pulled over and ticketed for no oversized load sign, even though they had the banners and flags with them, they forgot since the other trucks had it plastered on the front.
Worse yet, we got chased off a bank parking lot during changeover weekend. They had no room for anybody to park. Lady, I don't know if you realize this, but the FDIC says your sign needs to be accurate, and you can't open this branch with that sign on the corner. Several phone calls later and we were back the next day, during business hours. At least that set of extra hours got billed to a customer. Oh, and 3 cars had to get service in the drive thru...

The state made us put up a sign for one of our licenses after an inspection. I grabbed 2 longer 4x4s from the dunnage pile, rolled on rustoleum white, bent 2 pieces of angle out of white 063 and screwed 3mm acm to the angle between the posts. At 5pm, I told the sandblaster to go stick it in the ground. Straight in sugar sand, no concrete, stone nothing. I told the guy it needs to last a day, just long enough for the inspector to check their box. It has been there 6-7 years now, still standing up straight. Pro level stuff here.
Speaking of 2 cranes, this same customer told me these barges weighed 30k lbs, well they were between 38-45k each so the first time unloading these things, I had to have a second crane come in. Good thing I am friendly with the crane guys and they are right down the road. These are the times where the free hard hat stickers you make for them work out in your favor.