Gold Leaf Boat Stripe

[fresh]

We subcontract for a boat painter, and he thinks the quote I gave him for applying a 1/2" signgold stripe to a 42ft boat was insane. I know people don't like to share on the open forum, but can you help me out?

i quoted $800. its 84 linear feet of stripe (you can look up the cost of 1/2" signgold stripes, its not cheap.) and it needs to be edge sealed with oneshot. we estimate its going to take about 4-5 hours to lay the stripe and seal it. my partner is an expert pinstriper both with vinyl and with paint.

please tell me I'm not crazy.

 

[J Hill Designs]

We subcontract for a boat painter, and he thinks the quote I gave him for applying a 1/2" signgold stripe to a 42ft boat was insane. I know people don't like to share on the open forum, but can you help me out?

i quoted $800. its 84 linear feet of stripe (you can look up the cost of 1/2" signgold stripes, its not cheap.) and it needs to be edge sealed with oneshot. we estimate its going to take about 4-5 hours to lay the stripe and seal it. my partner is an expert pinstriper both with vinyl and with paint.

please tell me I'm not crazy.

not crazy

 

[Billct2]

Not crazy, but does striping need edge sealing? I thought it was good to go as is. If I had to seal I would use a cast clear to trap it.

 

[fresh]

according to this document it does require edge sealing to maintain its warranty.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

I think I would run a PPF on top of the stripe going onto the gel coat about 1/4" on each side of the gold pinstripe. This would protect it, and seal the edges all together.

 

[Billct2]

That's for the 14" signgold that gets cut. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could swear the signgold striping already has a clear that seals the edge.
I'm going to see if I have some around.

 

[fresh]

I think I would run a PPF on top of the stripe going onto the gel coat about 1/4" on each side of the gold pinstripe. This would protect it, and seal the edges all together.

what is a PPF? And we are just planning on following the manufacturers recommendations, which is to seal it with oneshot clear.

 

[Billct2]

Maybe it's different for a plain gold stripe, but this is the Signgold with black outline that we use and it has a clear that traps the line.

 

[fresh]

Maybe it's different for a plain gold stripe, but this is the Signgold with black outline that we use and it has a clear that traps the line.

very interesting. we've never ordered the striping, so i'm just going by that document. I'll have to call to see if the plain stripe has clear extended, too.

thanks for the picture!

edit: I just called Quick - they still recommend edge sealing with paint, even though the gold is trapped.

 

[SellersSign&Design]

That should not need to be edge sealed, but on a boat it may not be a bad idea. But I don't use Sign Gold, I use the Real Gold brand. I just recently learned that Real Gold has changed their recommendations, they now say edge sealing is not required for any of their gold products.

 

[Gino]

You're looking at about $50 worth of vinyl, about an hour for 2 guys to lay 2 stripes down and another hour to clear both sides, by an expert pinstriper. I don't know what you'd be doing in that hour, but you could certainly be putting your tools away or just shooting the breeze with the customer. Yes, $800 sounds a little steep if someone questions it. However, you won't make the big bucks, if you don't ask for it. Then again, you could lose the whole account for being a little too greedy.

Take your chances and stand your ground and maybe the guy will come around. Tell him, if all goes good for you, you might be able to shave a little off, but not more than $50 or so.

Using real gold leaf [not vinyl of any sorts] would be the ticket, then you could get about $2,000. An hour to tape it off. Another hour to size it and about 2 hours to gild it. Using 23k REAL gold leaf would surely bring a lot more money. However, I don't know how well it would hold up in salt water.

 

[Billct2]

I think the striping would be about $100
And you forgot sales time, travel time and cleaning the surface.
You guys kick butt, because I think it would take me and a helper about an hour just to lay out the stripe unless it was following a molding or paint line.
We usually put down a tape line to follow since boat hulls have so many curves grease pencil lines aren't enough.
Then an hour or so to put down the stripe itself.
As I said I don't think it would need edge sealing, but it it does I would trap the whole stripe with a clear cast film, another hour.
So I'd estimate 4-5 hours for the job from door to door.

 

[fresh]

I think the striping would be about $100
And you forgot sales time, travel time and cleaning the surface.
You guys kick butt, because I think it would take me and a helper about an hour just to lay out the stripe unless it was following a molding or paint line.
We usually put down a tape line to follow since boat hulls have so many curves grease pencil lines aren't enough.
Then an hour or so to put down the stripe itself.
As I said I don't think it would need edge sealing, but it it does I would trap the whole stripe with a clear cast film, another hour.
So I'd estimate 4-5 hours for the job from door to door.

Yep. Everything here is my assumption, too. The striping is about $100, we figure about an hour and half to stripe, closer to 2-2.5 hours for the pinstriping, (going up and down a ladder takes time!) and over an hour travel time. AND this has to be perfect.

 

[Gino]

Use a plumb line to get your stripe straight. 5 to 10 minutes for both sides.

If you're gonna charge for a whole roll of vinyl, I found SignGold 1/2 stripe with or without florentine for $48 for 50' on line. I first thought it said 150'..... so you would need about $100. worth of vinyl :Oops:
Didn't know you needed ladders. Take extra ladders and set up a second walk plank. We have 4 walk planks here. Two are 17', one is 12' and another one at I think 10' or 12'. Keep the flow going. No time to set up, re-group and keep starting over. Keep moving. That's the name of the game. Show the guy, you don't dilly-dally and you're worth more than the average installer.

As for travel time, if you have a contract or some kinda agreement with this guy, I would think travel time is negotiable, if you wanna keep his work.

 

[rossmosh]

When pricing stuff out, cost of living HAS to be a consideration. At times this is tricky because of the internet, but this job is less about materials and more about labor. As a result, I'd expect your pricing to be considered high because you're in NJ.

Just comparing Gino's location to Fresh's using websites like this & this you'll realize the price of doing this job in Asbury Park should be roughly 25% more than in Reading, PA. If it was a straight labor job, it should probably be closer to 40%. Obviously you can't always get away with that, but the premise remains sound.

 

[Billct2]

Straight line?

 

[Gino]

When pricing stuff out, cost of living HAS to be a consideration. At times this is tricky because of the internet, but this job is less about materials and more about labor. As a result, I'd expect your pricing to be considered high because you're in NJ.

Just comparing Gino's location to Fresh's using websites like this & this you'll realize the price of doing this job in Asbury Park should be roughly 25% more than in Reading, PA. If it was a straight labor job, it should probably be closer to 40%. Obviously you can't always get away with that, but the premise remains sound.

Those scales might work, but the whole thing revolves around your shop rate. One's shop rate, regardless of how many zeros or commas are in your numbers..... the bottom number won't lie, unless you are letting things out. Our shop rate in the shop is $85 per hour. On site is higher. So, no matter what a can of beer costs or a hair cut..... your shop is gonna make what it's gonna make whatever your costs are. If you are not covering your butt in all/every areas, you lose. Demographics will always play a part, but only if you are skimming by. Go head to head with all the same parameters and see who finishes first and onto the next job and the next and the next after that. If I can do 5 small jobs in a day by knowing what I'm doing vs. 3 or 4 for someone else, who is really making the bucks ?? Now, if you wanna keep the playing filed fair...... it's shop rate to shop rate. Not what someone pays for groceries or a dentist. Heck, what if it's just me and my wife vs. you your wife and 3 kids ?? Whose bill will be higher.

 

[rossmosh]

Those scales might work, but the whole thing revolves around your shop rate. One's shop rate, regardless of how many zeros or commas are in your numbers..... the bottom number won't lie, unless you are letting things out. Our shop rate in the shop is $85 per hour. On site is higher. So, no matter what a can of beer costs or a hair cut..... your shop is gonna make what it's gonna make whatever your costs are. If you are not covering your butt in all/every areas, you lose. Demographics will always play a part, but only if you are skimming by. Go head to head with all the same parameters and see who finishes first and onto the next job and the next and the next after that. If I can do 5 small jobs in a day by knowing what I'm doing vs. 3 or 4 for someone else, who is really making the bucks ?? Now, if you wanna keep the playing filed fair...... it's shop rate to shop rate. Not what someone pays for groceries or a dentist. Heck, what if it's just me and my wife vs. you your wife and 3 kids ?? Whose bill will be higher.

Obviously you're not getting my point. Cost of living drives shop rates and labor rates. So while you might think the price quoted is expensive, you also need to understand for every $1 you make, he needs to make ~$1.40 to live essentially the same lifestyle. So his price should be a bit high to you and probably a little low to someone in San Diego or San Francisco.

To me this boils down to the typical outsourcing of work issue. They see a small job with a big price but they don't know your numbers and the time involved and as a result, they think they price is high. We've all been there and done that. Sometimes the customer is right and the job is easier than you expected but more often than not, they aren't.

 

[Gino]

Obviously you're not getting my point. Cost of living drives shop rates and labor rates. So while you might think the price quoted is expensive, you also need to understand for every $1 you make, he needs to make ~$1.40 to live essentially the same lifestyle. So his price should be a bit high to you and probably a little low to someone in San Diego or San Francisco.

To me this boils down to the typical outsourcing of work issue. They see a small job with a big price but they don't know your numbers and the time involved and as a result, they think they price is high. We've all been there and done that. Sometimes the customer is right and the job is easier than you expected but more often than not, they aren't.

No, evidently, you are not understanding what I said. I'm not arguing with you, nor do I want to, but even if he needs to make $1.40 to my $1.00. If our money spends the same and I charge $50 an hour and he charges $50 an hour, I will indeed have more money left over for more things, but we as sign shops are on an even playing field for what we charge. Therefore, if his shop rate reflects the higher cost of living, his should be higher than mine to begin with, as you said yourself..... higher needs deem higher wages, but I don't think he is. I think some time ago, I read his shop rate and it's note $85. an hour.


No matter where I live or how I live....... if it costs me $5,000. a week to keep my doors open, what should my shop rate be ?? Based on your theory, I don't need as much as someone living in one of the ritzy areas you mentioned, if they only need $2,500 a week. Therefore, I can charge less. Well, it doesn't work that way. Your argument is correct in that higher cost of living shoves your rates up, but you must stay within your means to make ends meet. However, I could be working in my garage, no overhead, no payroll not much of anything...... insurance, use my house electric rate for a business and still live in that expensive area and still lowball my competitors. Let's go a step further..... everyone complains about what sneakers cost, dog food, computers and whatnot...... when it was all made here, it was competitive pricing and profit margins. It was almost cutthroat, huh ?? As companies moved to areas like China, Mexico and other places where labor is cheap, but kept their prices just about up where they were, they made better profits. How so, if they are working in areas where the average take home might be $25 a week, no benefits or anything else. How does your theory work for big business ??

 

[rossmosh]

No, evidently, you are not understanding what I said. I'm not arguing with you, nor do I want to, but even if he needs to make $1.40 to my $1.00. If our money spends the same and I charge $50 an hour and he charges $50 an hour, I will indeed have more money left over for more things, but we as sign shops are on an even playing field for what we charge. Therefore, if his shop rate reflects the higher cost of living, his should be higher than mine to begin with, as you said yourself..... higher needs deem higher wages, but I don't think he is. I think some time ago, I read his shop rate and it's note $85. an hour.


No matter where I live or how I live....... if it costs me $5,000. a week to keep my doors open, what should my shop rate be ?? Based on your theory, I don't need as much as someone living in one of the ritzy areas you mentioned, if they only need $2,500 a week. Therefore, I can charge less. Well, it doesn't work that way. Your argument is correct in that higher cost of living shoves your rates up, but you must stay within your means to make ends meet. However, I could be working in my garage, no overhead, no payroll not much of anything...... insurance, use my house electric rate for a business and still live in that expensive area and still lowball my competitors. Let's go a step further..... everyone complains about what sneakers cost, dog food, computers and whatnot...... when it was all made here, it was competitive pricing and profit margins. It was almost cutthroat, huh ?? As companies moved to areas like China, Mexico and other places where labor is cheap, but kept their prices just about up where they were, they made better profits. How so, if they are working in areas where the average take home might be $25 a week, no benefits or anything else. How does your theory work for big business ??

My whole point is the perception of a job being too high or low depends more on where the job is being done than people like to admit, especially on this type of work. This job is hours of labor and as a result, the price should be a bit higher in his area vs other areas.

Also you're reading into what I wrote instead of reading what I wrote. There are many different ways to run a business. Some successful businesses increase efficiency, lower prices, and grab a larger market share. Some increase efficiency, keep prices the same, and just make more per job/hour. Some are steady, charge what they need, and do well for themselves. There is no "right way" to run a business. Walmart's philosophy is different than Saks Fifth Avenue's. Doesn't make either one of them more wrong or right. This was never my point.

My point was simply down to the perception of cost of a job that is primarily a labor job. The material cost is essentially fixed regardless of what part of the US you're in. The price varies based on your cost of labor. Labor costs are very directly correlated to cost of living. As a result, I still say this job done in his area should read slightly expensive to many people on this forum and slightly inexpensive to others.