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HELP!! Trying to identify problem with Gerber Router Electrical Cabinet.

Raynard A.

New Member
We have a Gerber sabre router 408, that is at least 15 years old and operates normally and on a regular basis (average 3-4 times a week). When switched on recently however there were no Start-up Beeps and the the Key-pad would not come on.

The Keypad was hit the previous day during routing and remained unresponsive to commands until the particular job was completed. The Router was restated, registering no errors and continued to function normally until the attempted Start Up on the following day.

Using a borrowed Electrical Cabinet(B) and swapping out parts, we were able to determine that the Key-pad was in-fact working and that the mother board/main circuitry along with the circuit boards for the X, Y and Z axes controllers were also in working order when placed in the borrowed Electrical Cabinet(B).

So both Mother boards (from the respective Electrical Cabinets) gave us a fully functioning CNC Router when installed in the borrowed Electrical Cabinet(B). And both behaved similarly when installed in our Electrical Cabinet(A).
i.e.
(1) No start up beeps
(2) Unresponsive Keypad
(3) the last Green LED (labelled +5V) on the main mother Board wouldn't light up
-(in the Electrical Cabinet(B) the first two and last two Green Indicator LEDs along with the two Red would light up on both Mother Boards. At this point we still had no cables connected to it from the CNC router, if this makes any difference.

Based on this info can anyone help in indicating/pin-pointing the fault in Electrical Cabinet(A)?

Motherboard-Installed-in-Electrical-Cabinet-(A).jpg


Motherboard-Installed-in-Electrical-Cabinet-(B).jpg
 

KoorsSigns

New Member
It sounds dumb, but did you check the e-stops? When we had one, ours stopped working and I chased it for hours before realizing the e-stop was accidentally pushed…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Raynard A.

New Member
JBurton thank you so much for your reply and interest.

Yes, thankfully we have a fully functional router with our Motherboard installed in the borrowed Electrical Cabinet(B) (which unfortunately would have to be returned soon)
I’ve been able to route tests successfully from start to finish.

We had our Electrical Cabinet(A) fully hooked up to the Router at the time when observing this
-the last Green LED (labeled +5V) on the main mother Board wouldn't light up.

...and the other Electrical Cabinet(B) was not hooked up at the time when I observed this
-the first two and last two Green Indicator LEDs along with the two Red would light up on both Mother Boards.
Sorry for including that confusing bit of info initially, I was attempting to share the only observable difference I could find between the working and non working units (Electrical Cabinets) describing the conditions accurately.

Fortunately enough, the electrician on site at the time was thinking along the same lines as you. The external port for the key-pad was swapped and tested. It’s A-Okay.

We figured that the problem might be with some electrical issue/component at the lower part of the cabinet.
We were hoping to identify and replace said component rather than shipping the entire Unit overseas to be diagnosed and repaired.

Have you or anyone experienced any similar issues? Can anyone suggest where they think the source of the issue might be?

Electrical-Cabinet-Lower.jpg
 

Raynard A.

New Member
It sounds dumb, but did you check the e-stops? When we had one, ours stopped working and I chased it for hours before realizing the e-stop was accidentally pushed…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
KoorsSigns

Hey, I welcome all suggestions...I’m in brainstorm mode myself.

I think I’m good on the e-stops though. Everything being equal, the router’s functioning un-hindered with Electrical Cabinet(B).

I appreciate the feedback all the same.
 

netsol

Active Member
raynard,
sorry, i have been too busy to respond the last day or so.

your problem sounds potentially very simple

the led not lighting indicates a 5 volt power supply failure.

i am afraid i have not seen a sabre since they were much newer technology

we have 2 options here:

(1) TIME IS OF THE ESSENSE, you need work turned out yesterday and better find a qualified tech to troubleshoot this, since it may take us a day or two to go through things

(2) YOU CAN GET BY A FEW DAYS IN THE INTEREST TO SAVE THE MONEY, you have someone to send critical work out to. i will go ahead and buy a manual. i will send you a link to download the pdf. my help is, of course free, and the sabre was always a favorite machine, so adding this manual to my collection is something i will go ahead with, either way

your electrician/tech should have seen you had a 5v failure. (that is why the led is out) all the logic (the "computery" stuff) runs on 5 V or 12. V. things that turn motors, power solenoids, etc run on other voltages. (the things that do the work, and move heavy things)

you or the electrican should have a look, and try to locate the 5 volt source. you will probably see some large transistors, perhaps a FUSE, i will be happy to go step by step with you

do you have a meter of any sort? if not, you can buy one for $10-$20 at harbor freight, home depot, lowes or walmart

once you and i are looking at the same manual, this should be a simple thing to diagnose (truthfully i don't remember the sabre at all, but i have fixed ALL MANNER ELECTRONICS, since i was 11 years old, in 1964

are you confident enough to follow some simple instructions, text me a few pictures you can take with your phone & reach in and take some measurements? or get your electrician/tech to do so?

it may take us a couple days back & forth, before we solve your issue, or it could be a 10 minute job, this is a crazy short week & i have a wide format printer in my van that we just acquired that is TOO BIG TO REMOVE WITH THE FORKLIFT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE TO ME, so my time will be split between your project & some of my own, but i am more than willing to help & have a success to failure rate that should inspire confidence

i am getting the service manual, as i write this. let me know if you are ready to "jump in" to the repair process. today is a holiday and we have some company coming over so we will get off to a slow start
 

Jester1167

Premium Subscriber
This may or may not help, but we had an old Multicam (404 I think) that had a variable resistor on the 5v power supply that we had to adjust constantly. The power supply was going bad and when the voltage fluctuated above or below a certain point it wouldn't work. The adjustment got us by until we could get a new 5v supply which took a while. We thought the variable voltage had something to do with the temperature in the shop affecting the failing power supply?
 

netsol

Active Member
JBurton,
i am not a terrible sign maker, but i am much handier in the shop, after a machine stops functioning. that's when i am in my element.
 

Druid

New Member
Good day

netsol

Sorry, a little off topic, but you mentioned a source of service manuals for the Sabre, I have a problem with a Gerber Dimension 200X and would like to find/purchase a service manual.

I think that currently I have a machine (out of long term storage) that may have lost its "Home Position" amongst some other things. I have selected a D200 machine on the machine control box (ARC Station) but in jogging the axis to the home positions, on machine power up, the X and Y look to react correctly and move themselves back off the end limits, but then drive themselves back through the end limits and into the rubber mechanical end stops, I would have expected the axis to move to a machine 0,0 position someware inside the end limits?
Regards, Dai.
 

netsol

Active Member
Good day

netsol

Sorry, a little off topic, but you mentioned a source of service manuals for the Sabre, I have a problem with a Gerber Dimension 200X and would like to find/purchase a service manual.

I think that currently I have a machine (out of long term storage) that may have lost its "Home Position" amongst some other things. I have selected a D200 machine on the machine control box (ARC Station) but in jogging the axis to the home positions, on machine power up, the X and Y look to react correctly and move themselves back off the end limits, but then drive themselves back through the end limits and into the rubber mechanical end stops, I would have expected the axis to move to a machine 0,0 position someware inside the end limits?
Regards, Dai.
 

Vassago

New Member
Tbh - sounds pretty simple.

Its a psu fault.. But.. The psu is working, so that leaves the cables/connectors connecting the psu to the the board.

When you say electrical cabinet - I'm guessing the psu is part of that, so I'd check the voltages coming from the psu into the connectors.

When you say "Hit" - What EXACTLY happened?

I'm guessing a cable was pulled leading to a bad connection - probably a pin has been pulled out of the psu connection - possibly only a little bit, but enough to not make contact - thus the missing 5v line.
 

Hueyville

New Member
I have a Sabre 408 that has run perfectly forever except one time a board in the control box went bad and a limit switch broken when we were a Gerber Beta Test Shop. We got all new firmware, updates, software upgrades first top test in shop environment and issues were not uncommon but at time I had a programmer/electronic board expert on payroll who would usually diagnose issue then send the line or lines of code with their fix back to Gerber. At the time our Gerber distributor and Gerber would call and ask us for help on occasion. Now I am returning to work after almost two years of doors locked (employees didn't return following mandatory covid shutdown) and while going through the employee of the week or day (hired 14 people longest any lasted was four days, had some not return after first day plus one walk off first job site of the day when handed him a shovel) I was diagnosed with cancer (second time) and then a second form of cancer with benign tumors growing next to spine.

So after a long time parked went turned on machine one day it worked perfect then next it started, went thru start up beeps and pressed "home" on keypay. It went to home but instead of taking job sent from computer it just scrolls firmware revision across display on keypad and have zero control of anything. Can't get any response including moving carriage, raising/lowering spindle and have one LED that is red. Assume a board has gone bad but my Gerber dealer has two router repair techs but won't work on Gerber Sabres anymore. Began chasing issues but had a relapse on my cancer and let it go. Anytime it's not in use control box, high frequency spindle controller and vacuum pump are unplugged from power so a random lighting storm does not cause havoc. In fact if having storms do not run the machine.

Anyone willing to talk someone with moderate electrical skills through diagnosing issue? I have three Fluke meters with two being advanced logging meters and have experience even replacing capacitors, resistors, etc. I called Gerber and didn't make any headway except sending tech at $237 per hour travel time each way, hotel accommodations, parts, labor, etc. When went down list of potential charges it could literally go over value of the machine for factory repair. Doctors have one more.chemo infusion and two minor spine procedures before Christmas and say I can return to work but without router there is no sense unlocking the doors.

Have been buying/using Geber equipment back to the IVb, Gerber Scanner 1, Sprint, Super Sprint, Maxx and still have two HS15+, two Edge machines, HS 750+ and two licensed copies of Omega plus MIP station running. With the Sabre 408 plus materials have spent easily over a million dollars with Gerber and can't get help with a machine they still claim to sell. I am hoping a nephew or niece pick up our 72 year old family business and take it to 100 years but after two years of no income and pile of medical copays/deductibles getting my router running is the deciding factor in restarting or retiring which I can't afford but can't afford to buy a new router after age sixty unless have a commitment from next generation to take it up and keep going.
 

Vassago

New Member
OK.. From what it's doing there are a number of things it can be..
First is easiest. With the power OFF (for a while) - give socketed chips a push - they can get loose. This sounds like a firmware issue, so whichever chip holds that. Might have a sticker on it. Could be in handset or motherboard. Look for "eprom" on Google for an idea of what it looks like. Newer machines didn't use eproms or sockets.

Caps go bad around this age. Check voltage lines for correct voltage and ac ripple (turn meter to ac) -it should be very very low if not zero - a failing cap can cause all sorts of problems. Easily fixed, but not easily found

Another weird one is rust. Check any earth connections to the chassis don't have any rust on them. Can cause all sorts of weird issues.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
Also, if you aren't keen on electronic repair like vassago suggests, there's a fellow that runs up and down the interstate collecting hardware that needs repairs. I reached out to them when my router camera went kaput, and though they couldn't help me, they were quite knowledgeable. Here's their website: http://www.industrialrepair.net/
 

Vassago

New Member
Biggest problem with that it it's often
Also, if you aren't keen on electronic repair like vassago suggests, there's a fellow that runs up and down the interstate collecting hardware that needs repairs. I reached out to them when my router camera went kaput, and though they couldn't help me, they were quite knowledgeable. Here's their website: http://www.industrialrepair.net/
hard to identify issues without the rest of the hardware.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
Biggest problem with that it it's often

hard to identify issues without the rest of the hardware.
Agreed, though in theory they could pull the motors too, and rig it up for a dry run, but now you're talking a bit more labor, more money, and still no guaranteed fix. But if one were to be fully unfamiliar with resoldering a blown cap, but could identify one, this may be an option. Then again, I have no clue what their pricing looks like. They were wanting to quote before picking anything up, so that's a plus at least.
 

Hueyville

New Member
Will start chasing as many small issues as possible. Have purchased Gerber IVb, Gerber Scanner 1, Sprint 15" & 30", SuperSprint 15" & 30", two HS15+, one HS750+, two Edge printers, Maxx printer and the Sabre 408 router. Counting materials and consumables easily spent over a million dollars with them and when purchased dealer promised support. Now dealers say do not support Gerber equipment anymore. Called Gerber and they sent me this price list.

Travel Expenses including all car rental, airfare, hotel, and meal charges: At cost
Weekday Labor for travel both ways and while on-site (two hour minimum): $220 per hour
Parts: At MSRP
Shipping charges for Parts: At cost

I am assuming tech flies into Atlanta from Massachusetts, rents car, settles in hotel room, starts next morning and best case says "need part #xxxx" has overnight shipped to install, tests, update firmware, drives back to Atlanta spending night at hotel airport waiting on flight and have spent $10,000 or so dollars. Worst case he spends two days finding issue then says control box has to be sent to China for repair or buy new and when shows up router still does not work and say have to fly back and start over, never finds problem and have $20,000+ in router still dead.

We have been closed two years because I have been going through two different types of cancer plus have had over a dozen spine surgeries. If file disability cant pay my bills as spent huge amount of savings when rear ended on way home from work in 2007 breaking my neck and in scans doctors noticed a brain tumor. Due to "boss man" not on site sales and production dropped rapidly then 2008 market crashed but paid my two key full time guys their full 40 hours per week and two key part time men their average twenty hours per week and most weeks shop closed by noon Wednesday for lack of work through 2010 and I returned to work after dealt with brain tumor, broken neck and a little spin around the block to clear my mind on motorcycle and deer ran out in road and ended up having orthopedic surgeon take 14.5 hours to fix it. Knew if men didnt get paid would be gone when health/economy recovered. We have done this through every economic downturn back to 1972 OPEC oil crisis and minor downturns in the 1960s. Soon as post health and 2008 crash picked up, got busy hired on more men and went back at it. Went to lumber store and when returned two of seven men were left. Soon as I left a competitor came in and offered everyone a $2 per hour raise to come with him and five followed him. Had a lof of upset clients when production slowed and lost a few to shop who hired my guys as one took all our graphics files and Quickbooks price/customer list for a cash bonus.

Since 1952 we have been honest, treated clients honest and employees like family but learned the hard way world doesnt work that way. Remember dad meeting once a week for breakfast with owners of every shop in town, we helped each other, loaned materials, helped each other through jobs and everyone did well. When the sign computer became common and vendors popped up in every retail strip center our industry went from friendly competition to fighting over lowest bid on a 3'×6' banner or 18"×24" for sale by owner but we kept motoring on providing quality. Rebuilt my team then covid hit, had mandatory shut downs but paid my men their weekly average pay reaching in savings.

Covid shutdowns ended, material shortages continued to cause client issues when told them the Gerber 220 vinyl used to mark vehicles was back ordered then as work picked up and material shortages normalized had another competitor with human resources issue in and offered everyone who came to his shop a raise and as tried to rebuild a team got diagnosed with cancer early 2022 and doctors found some tumors in back that from time showed on MRI as size of end of my thumb came out bigger than a baseball. Been out of work majority of 2022 and all 2023 and been unable to hire anyone that stays. Am considering fixing router, servicing all the plotters and printers then selling them. Think I can go to hand lettering, pin striping, hand carved signs, screen printing reproduction wall paper for houses being restored to their 1800s glory, recreating complicated crown moldings, window casings, custom iron work, gold leaf and all the skills I learned growing up in a big 17 man sign shop during the 1960s and 1970s. Work others have no idea how to do unless 3D print and still hard to do and be historically correct.

I had done three hand carved signs back to back when my Gerber dealer showed me a brochure and video on Sabre 408 and ordered it that day. Sent demo of Artcam Pro full 3D software, spent $10,000 for licensed copy and week training for myself and my full time graphics guy. Made enough money first three years to pay for it on one client but all his work was 60"×60" mold masters whose only complaint was all being made in two pieces. He saw a 62" wide Multicam machine asked me if intended to buy one and said was too much cost to replace a router when had a "no real issue" work around to his 60" issue so he purchased amulti cam, hired an operator then when discovered his work only kept machine busy one to two days per week went from client to competitor.

I am about to turn 61 but was hand cutting Ulano "stay sharp" and 3M Contoltac with a knife from age ten when a job needed vinyl instead of paint. Was hand lettering before I started at an easel on a box doing "grocery store window posters" after lunch when kindergarten let out then using water based temporary paint lettering prices on windshields of cars on dealer lots all through elementary school. Dad would pop inspection panel in lighted signs, shove me inside and I would swap bulbs without dad having to pull faces. Remember our old shop when moved had almost two inche worn spot in concrete along the easels from four men walking back and forth slinging lettering brushes all day. My dad, Wimpy Cantrell, "Big Dan" Griffin, "Shady" Williams and other letterheads who taught me the trade. "Big Dan's" specialty was painting road runners, other Mopar graphics and cutting film for screens, "Wimpy" taught me cartooning, "Shady" taught me gold leaf, glass smalt, hand carving and more while dad was all about knocking out 4'×8's, billboards, "wall dogging" and a clean fast style that turned fast money and nice signs. Fix router, service all plotters and printers then sell while some value left then go back to 1800s to 1960s handmcrafted work.

It's nice knocking out a design on my work station and sending it to a machine but everyone can do that. Had an uncle who had his "sign kit" with lettering enamel and brushes tied on back of a bicycle and rode that bike town to town for fifteen years before buying a truck, never bought into computer sign equipment till finally began ordering printed banners for billboards to save time from a subcontractor and died a multimillionaire. May be time to hang up the sign business all together to restore antique motorcycles and build custom guns. This router issue is going to swing my life decision really big as if get it running know I can sell enough work off it to make good money napping while it runs. Being the first to embrace every new machine technology did me well but now anyone can buy Chinese printer and plotter, rent 600 sq ft store front and are instant sign professionals. Question Is will my back hold up to three days with chisels, full days of striping cars, engine turning gold leaf and letting go of the machines. If able to solve router issue have half dozen jobs could beging Jan 2 so it's a quandry.
 

netsol

Active Member
Agreed, though in theory they could pull the motors too, and rig it up for a dry run, but now you're talking a bit more labor, more money, and still no guaranteed fix. But if one were to be fully unfamiliar with resoldering a blown cap, but could identify one, this may be an option. Then again, I have no clue what their pricing looks like. They were wanting to quote before picking anything up, so that's a plus at least.
They probably have something like a huntron tracker. A godsend when you have a dead short on one of the power supply busses. It can tell proximity to a short & whether you are moving towards or away from it.

Not going to be much help with your problem. IF I UNDERSTOOD what I read earlier, something's"bumped" the machine pretty hard? Have we looked for a cracked ground buss at the edge of the boards? Since it is gerber I would unplug all the connectors again reflow all the grounds, as well as all the pub mounted molex connectors. (Can't tell you how many tines th
 

netsol

Active Member
I read it through again. When you say "electrical cabinet", I assume you mean a metal box with a backplane board? (Your motherboard plugs into it At a right angle?
 

MikePro

New Member
i once had this happen on my multicam CNC router. turned out that after a keypad drop, the board inside the controller had unseated one of its connections, and we were able to remedy simply by taking it apart and re-assembling.
 
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