hi im chris, what was your biggest mistake?

[greytees]

new to sign business. going to start a screen printing business again, this time im wanting to include signs and vehicle wraps. was doing screen printing in michigan long time ago and just got burnt out when the economy there really tanked. so many questions and found signs101 to have most of the answers or at least puttiing me in the right direction. have about 5k to spend on used printer but trying to find out as much as possible before i buy. i am planning on going to geekwraps training at end of summer (unless yall know better training classes). learning while working for someone else is not feasible as i will be aquiring my own clients for screen printing and embroidery. not to mention noncompete clauses, and the reason im getting back into business is for the fun of being self employed (i know lots of people dont think its fun, ive always enjoyed the pressure myself, until mi economy just made it not profitable enough). any and all pointers and advice yall have is great.
i know theres lots of threads about used'printers out there, but lots of them are from 2000-2012. i dont want to buy one and then find out its been obsolete for 5 years and feel like a dumbass. thank you for this great site and thank you to all membes who have posted in the past, i might have read one of your posts already.

what i would love to know is when you started, what was your biggest mistake...in hopes i dont make the same one. thanks again everyone!
chris

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

If I was under 30 with interest in this field & the way changes are being made at such a fast pace now, I would not even bother with learning much or buying much equipment & just let others go through it all I would learn design & buy software & computer that could handle full design & etc, fonts, some clip art but mostly learning how make everything on my own with the software & send it off to be made

 

[StopSignGraphics]

I agree. Don't buy the printing equipment for wraps just starting out. Sub out the printing until you establish a client base large enough to support the purchase.

Wrap classes aren't a terrible investment. They'll teach you the basics but you'll get more out of it if you have some exposure.

Sub out the printing for wraps, find some one experienced for the install. Learn from watching/working with them on a few jobs then take your wrap class if you feel you need to.

Good luck,
Chris

 

[greytees]

what program should i master? im open minded to waiting on printer.

If I was under 30 with interest in this field & the way changes are being made at such a fast pace now, I would not even bother with learning much or buying much equipment & just let others go through it all I would learn design & buy software & computer that could handle full design & etc, fonts, some clip art but mostly learning how make everything on my own with the software & send it off to be made

printer would be more fun...but ill take your advise on learning software first...printers will always be there. whats your favorite design program? thank you for the advice.
chris

 

[ddubia]

My biggest mistake was subbing out 200 yard signs that were printed with the word service spelled wrong. I think I bumped the "e" key when typing an "r" and ended up with "Serevice".

I think my biggest mistake in the sign business was trying to be everything to everybody. I've since boiled down my offering to those things I do well and enjoy doing. Some of the other things I didn't do well and didn't really enjoy doing. Plus, a lot of times those jobs failed in one regard or another even though the customer was happy. Most often it was a matter of my spending too much time on the projects vs their value.

I agree with subbing out the printing. You can have your needs printed at a good discount leaving you room to make money on it without the headaches of learning a printer, eating bad prints or the overall expense of the purchase. Other opinions may differ but I doubt you'd get much of a used printer for $5k and then there's all the different print media you'd have to inventory and the headaches when it malfunctions.

You will get a lot of differing opinions about software. I use Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop because I have a prepress background and we ran those on a Mac. I use a PC now but have become accustomed to that software. I initially learned in CorelDraw 5 and that is good software that does everything you need at a shorter learning curve. Many here use it. Then there is FlexiSign which many use also. It's a dedicated sign making software though I think it's way too expensive. I have FlexiSign 7.6 which is an older version. I love it for some of the easy manipulations you can do with lettering and also for the unlimited size working space.

Good luck with your endeavor. If you like the pressure of being on your own as you say, just let every job slide to the last minute and you'll be in pressure heaven. :Big Laugh

 

[greytees]

great info...thank you very much.

definately gonna hold off on printer for now and find someewhere to sub out printing to start.

 

[J Hill Designs]

welcome from cali

definately gonna hold off on printer for now and find someewhere to sub out printing to start.

good call - check out signs365 and signs2trade

 

[TimToad]

I think the biggest "mistake" I ever made from a company liability standpoint was as a very young apprentice at Foster & Kleiser in Chicago around 1981 or 82 while up working on a billboard located directly above the main UPS parking lot of about 500 cars, I accidentally knocked over almost an entire gallon can of metallic silver paint from roughly 80 feet in the air. Those old Carlton cigarette billboards had Day Glo orange and metallic silver all over them.

They don't call it the Windy City for nothin' ....... Instant airbrush spread that gallon over several acres of parking lot.

Even after four crews of two made every effort to clean it all off, at least a dozen vehicle's paint jobs had to be redone.

 

[greytees]

wow timtoad!

I think the biggest "mistake" I ever made from a company liability standpoint was as a very young apprentice at Foster & Kleiser in Chicago around 1981 or 82 while up working on a billboard located directly above the main UPS parking lot of about 500 cars, I accidentally knocked over almost an entire gallon can of metallic silver paint from roughly 80 feet in the air. Those old Carlton cigarette billboards had Day Glo orange and metallic silver all over them.

They don't call it the Windy City for nothin' ....... Instant airbrush spread that gallon over several acres of parking lot.

Even after four crews of two made every effort to clean it all off, at least a dozen vehicle's paint jobs had to be redone.

wow that has to suck. did it seem like the can was in slow motion as it fell? how mad was your boss?

 

[Mosh]

Offering T-shirts and printwear...I am so much happier now I got that noose off my neck.
Don't get me wrong, this is good money in it...if you like dealing with MORONS like "softball guy".....

 

[FireSprint.com]

I agree with the other posts. Learning to say "No" was the best thing we ever figured out. You can be everything to everyone. The biggest challenge is saying "No I don't do that" when you know there's a way and you might have the time.

At first you need to say yes to alot of things just to figure out what you're good at and what you can make a dime on. But after you figure that out, you need to start saying "No" to really grow.

 

[Jillbeans]

I agree about the subbing out of printing.
I use Corel and have had real good luck with it. I can cut paint mask or vinyl on my Graphtec plotter via Corel but I sub out my prints.

I agree with ddubia. Don't try to be everything to everyone. Find what you're good at, and what you enjoy doing, and do that.

I was a hand painter (still am) since 1985, I got a plotter in 1998. With the plotter came coro signs. With the coro signs came a lot of people wanting it cheaper and cheaper. I stopped doing them last month and it feels damn good.

Never try to compete with others. Charge what you charge, what works best for you, based on at the very least the pricing guide you get when you subscribe to Signcraft. Do not under cut fellow sign makers, it creates lower prices and devalues our industry.

If you don't know how to do something, either sub it out or don't do it. If you're going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all. Don't use cheap materials. Don't use ugly fonts.

Don't listen to people who say "if you letter my race car I will get you a lot of business" Never listen when someone says "I'm going to bring you my whole fleet of trucks to letter if you give me a good deal" Get everything in writing, using two-part proposals and make the client sign them. Never even turn on your computer without a deposit. Never give sketches without a deposit.

That's just some of the things I can think of.
Love....Jill

 

[Fatboy]

I agree about the subbing out of printing.
I use Corel and have had real good luck with it. I can cut paint mask or vinyl on my Graphtec plotter via Corel but I sub out my prints.

I agree with ddubia. Don't try to be everything to everyone. Find what you're good at, and what you enjoy doing, and do that.

I was a hand painter (still am) since 1985, I got a plotter in 1998. With the plotter came coro signs. With the coro signs came a lot of people wanting it cheaper and cheaper. I stopped doing them last month and it feels damn good.

Never try to compete with others. Charge what you charge, what works best for you, based on at the very least the pricing guide you get when you subscribe to Signcraft. Do not under cut fellow sign makers, it creates lower prices and devalues our industry.

If you don't know how to do something, either sub it out or don't do it. If you're going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all. Don't use cheap materials. Don't use ugly fonts.

Don't listen to people who say "if you letter my race car I will get you a lot of business" Never listen when someone says "I'm going to bring you my whole fleet of trucks to letter if you give me a good deal" Get everything in writing, using two-part proposals and make the client sign them. Never even turn on your computer without a deposit. Never give sketches without a deposit.

That's just some of the things I can think of.
Love....Jill

Excellent Advice!

 

[ddubia]

Don't listen to people who say "if you letter my race car I will get you a lot of business"

And they all say that. I've done something like 37 stock cars over the years. I'm not sure that I ever got one through another car I did. Those guys are competing with each other. If he loves the way his car looks he's not going to refer me to another driver because he doesn't want that guy's car looking as good as his. Usually I got them by referral from a business customer who's truck I'd lettered and he knew a stock car driving friend.

The guy I work for now, when someone tells him, "I can get you tons of work if you give me a great deal on this." He tells them, "You get me the ton of work and then I'll do yours for free." They usually smile because they know they are full of BS.

I did stock cars cheap though because the local guys rarely had any money. I'd let them pick the color for the numbers but I insisted on the style, layouts and all the other colors for everything else. Basically I"d set up shop at their garage and spend a leisurely day playing with it. Even drank some beers on occasion which I never usually did during normal working hours. For me it was a fun day.

I was tempted to do one a few weeks ago for an old friend. But I haven't hand-lettered anything for 15 years so I opted out. Now I'm kicking myself because one stock car would have gotten me back in the swing.

 

[TimToad]

wow that has to suck. did it seem like the can was in slow motion as it fell? how mad was your boss?

Not nearly slo-motion enough. LOL

Anyone of the old wall dog persuasion in crowded urban areas knows that this sort of thing is prone to happen from time to time. Especially in a really windy environment and management pressing the crews to get stuff done in less than ideal weather as fast as possible.

The boss and everyone else who came to help clean up had ALL dumped paint off a wall or billboard onto something at some point in their careers, so I was like the young Ray Liotta character in GoodFellas after first first arrest.

 

[artbot]

until you figure that your printer would be run at 1-6 hours every single day, just sub out. if you have $5k burning a hole in your pocket, use that on building a market. printers don't make money, delivered projects do. no client, no project.

biggest lesson is the same for me too. this is my year to say "no". results? not working nearly as many hours, oddly have the same amount of money and more time to relax or work on the shop, etc. i figure in the last ten years, i've wasted about two of those years painfully learning that i'm in over my head. all this pain spread out over the decade in lost hours, or days, or even weeks. whether it was a client that i couldn't get to sign off on a design (fire them early) or a piece that was just too intolerant to get out the door, all these moments in time have robbed me of what used to be my "specialty". so it's back to offering my specialty products and passing on the rest. the market is the planet. be good at something small and simple and sell it to the world. do not become a "one stop shop". if you do that, your business will never escape your zip code.

 

[HDvinyl]

your business will never escape your zip code.

 

[jriley]

Wow, Tim!

I think the biggest "mistake" I ever made from a company liability standpoint was as a very young apprentice at Foster & Kleiser in Chicago around 1981 or 82 while up working on a billboard located directly above the main UPS parking lot of about 500 cars, I accidentally knocked over almost an entire gallon can of metallic silver paint from roughly 80 feet in the air. Those old Carlton cigarette billboards had Day Glo orange and metallic silver all over them.

They don't call it the Windy City for nothin' ....... Instant airbrush spread that gallon over several acres of parking lot.

Even after four crews of two made every effort to clean it all off, at least a dozen vehicle's paint jobs had to be redone.

My heart dropped reading your story. Glad you got through it!

 

[greytees]

great advice so far!

cant thank everyone enough. so far this advice has been really good. i promise it hasnt fallen on deaf ears (no offense to hearing impaired). saved me spending $5k on a printer. i see now im better of farming out to a company with much better printers and laminators than i could ever get with 5k! not gonna waste the 5k i had set aside for the printer, instead i am going to invest it wisely...im thinking kegorater.
chris.

 

[J Hill Designs]

...im thinking kegorater.

perfect