how do you handle design fees

[Wraps ink]

Just wondering how many people charge seperate for designing vehicle wraps or do you build it in witj the over all price if not what method do you use and how effective is it

 

[rjssigns]

We do the first hour free. Not free after that. I'm older and finally realized time is a non-renewable resource. If I'm not getting paid I'm not working on your sign. Only exception is the yearly church picnic where we do all the signage.

Sad to say most people don't think making attractive signage is a true skill. It is also part of the reason I weld for hire besides. Completely different mind set with those folks. More than happy to pay shop rate and not even flinch.

 

[TheSnowman]

Most of my customers would poop if they saw a design charge on their invoices. I just build it into my price when I give them pricing, and say "that includes design, print, and finishing, out the door". If it's a big job that has lots of design, I kind of have to shoot from the hip, but so far it's always worked out for me. The customer is normally happy as a pig in poop when they see our designs compared to what they came in wanting and talking about "block letters, black on white", and they forget that we were more expensive than the other places they shopped.

When someone comes in looking for the lowest price, I tell them right out of the gate that I won't be the cheapest, but I'm the best, so they just have to choose. I lose some, but win most after a brief education lesson with them about the differences in good marketing.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I normally allocate about 15 - 30 minutes per job as layout/design for free. If a job is going to be a massive re-design or re-create from crappy art, nominal art fee since I can do that in about an hour or two. Logos and illustrations are different, especially with revisions but is pretty much half down, rest on completion. Things like complex graphics for what ever (wraps, window fronts, what ever) might have an hour art fee just to cover my time. and things like stock art, typefaces, outside services (advanced website programming for example) is actual cost +10% (for just in case it does cost just a little bit more and to cover my corral time with those things).

Any money needing to be paid at the beginning is required before work begins and is non-refundable since i've had a few get right to the end and go 'ehhh, i'm going to go with something else."

Only other fee I have is a 'Proof Fee' where someone who is wanting a large job but doesn't know what direction to take with the art. it's a non-refundable fee, and I still keep the rights to the work. But they get 3-5 mockups and can choose 1 that I will advance 3 different ways. The fee applies to the final cost of the job if they decide to go with the graphics. Basically it's a 'cover my time' fee.

And most customers, I just build design time into the cost ... customers lose their **** at design fees.

 

[rjssigns]

Forgot to add that a bunch of our clients want itemized invoices so we got into that mode. It works well for us and gets rid of tire kickers immediately.

As professionals we always need to learn and elevate our craft. If you are "burying" design fees it does nothing but deepen the public's perception that good design is not worth paying for.

 

[Wraps ink]

We usually get a $175 deposit before we do any mock ups and with that they get up to 3 revisions. I've seen a few websites advertising up to $1000 for just to design the wrap and I'm like geez its hard to get top dollar as it is without adding another $300-$1000 just for design I don't know how shops are getting that if they are I'd like to know the trick

 

[JgS]

Most of the time I work it into the cost. Only time I charge a design fee is if I know I have to bring in another designer.

 

[nikdoobs]

As professionals we always need to learn and elevate our craft. If you are "burying" design fees it does nothing but deepen the public's perception that good design is not worth paying for.

I agree. The problem is that customers are cheap and they don't understand good design to begin with, much less the value of good design. I recently had this argument with one of our salesmen. As of now our company policy is to give "free" design work with unlimited changes (which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion). He tries to bury it into the cost of the sign which may help us win the job, but it definitely deepens the public perception that good design is not worth paying for. Plus they then have this notion to see the design in every possible color/font/size combination to the point where I waste all my time to try and please the customer who has now become the "designer". Now we don't make any money on the job, and the sign looks like ****. But hey, at least the customer is happy!


And on top of all this, my value an experienced, and educated graphic artist has also gone down the drain.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I agree. The problem is that customers are cheap and they don't understand good design to begin with, much less the value of good design. I recently had this argument with one of our salesmen. As of now our company policy is to give "free" design work with unlimited changes (which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion). He tries to bury it into the cost of the sign which may help us win the job, but it definitely deepens the public perception that good design is not worth paying for. Plus they then have this notion to see the design in every possible color/font/size combination to the point where I waste all my time to try and please the customer who has now become the "designer". Now we don't make any money on the job, and the sign looks like ****. But hey, at least the customer is happy!


And on top of all this, my value an experienced, and educated graphic artist has also gone down the drain.

sales person is failing at their job if they don't say 'yes, we CAN do that ... but lets talk to our designer first to see what his suggestions are and what would be best given his years of experience in this'

sales people don't want to say no because that could be a loss of sale ... they should be passing that off to you to say 'in MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION ... this won't look as good as if we did x or y or whatever' as the designer, you need to put your foot down and use the term 'quality control' when something leaves your computer as it's establishing a standard the shop puts out so when someone says 'who designed that?' the person doesn't go 'x shop ... not really good at design are they?' I get that some jobs are just crap art that begets crap art ... but if you design it from start to finish ... quality control.

remember, your value and your reputation are keyed to that work.

 

[Joe Diaz]

As professionals we always need to learn and elevate our craft. If you are "burying" design fees it does nothing but deepen the public's perception that good design is not worth paying for.

I agree 100%. We used to not show the cost(value) of design work on our invoices/quotes. The moment we started charging for design as a separate service was the moment people started valuing that service and seeing us as not only sign makers but designers. It made a massive difference for us. it is one of the best decisions we have ever made.

 

[fresh]

Only other fee I have is a 'Proof Fee' where someone who is wanting a large job but doesn't know what direction to take with the art. it's a non-refundable fee, and I still keep the rights to the work. But they get 3-5 mockups and can choose 1 that I will advance 3 different ways. The fee applies to the final cost of the job if they decide to go with the graphics. Basically it's a 'cover my time' fee.

This is exactly what I needed last week. Thank you, I'm going to advertise this as a service... "I'm not giving you a deposit till i know what its going to look like!" - PROOF FEE please!

 

[HulkSmash]

$75 an hr. The end.