How many of you could leave your shop behind for at least a month and not have any issues?

[WhatsYourSign?]

Sounds like you're sulking. I'm just trying to figure out the $600k sales and $300k revenue thing. I might be dyslexic but that's a lot better than being a full blown retard.

It's the results from one month - I don't understand why you're having trouble understanding that.

$300k revenue = jobs that were delivered and invoiced in March (and mostly sold in previous months)

$600k sales = jobs that will be delivered in the coming months ($300k of that is a Watchfire job we sold with 11 displays that we'll install in 4 days in May because we're just swapping out displays in existing cabinets)

---

Do you not track your sales and revenue independently?

We track our Sales Leads, Quotes, Sales Orders, and Revenue... Each of them is an indicator of what's to follow.

For example:

- 50% of our leads will turn into quotes

- We close around 30% of the dollar value of what we quote and 55% of the # of jobs we quote (we close a higher percentage of the smaller jobs)

- I know the % of orders that will be invoiced within 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, etc

By knowing all these numbers, we can identify potential issues before they become real issues. For example, if our leads are down in April, I know we are going to have a revenue issue in June/July if we don't pick it up in May.

These numbers may be surprising for you, but I personally know the owners of two SignWorld franchises (we aren't a franchise but I've gotten to know them) that have been on nearly identical growth trajectories and also have mostly absentee owners like me, so I know we aren't the only ones with results like this.

What I've seen with the vast majority of sign companies out there, especially the smaller shops, is that you have people who can make a great sign but aren't great leaders and therefore struggle to ever grow the business beyond themselves and a small handful of employees.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

In 10k SQ ft either.
He drives this View attachment 170757 and tells everyone it's this View attachment 170758

Why would we need more than 10,000 sq ft?

We don't do metal fabrication/electrical work in-house (we install but wholesale fab out)... We actually don't even fully utilize all 10,000 sq ft, we have plenty of room for growth.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Even if you change it to $600k revenue/sales.... $300k profit, it's no where near realistic for a sign shop. No ones doing 50% profit margin.

I think perhaps you don't understand what these terms mean...I never said $300k in profit.

$300k revenue = jobs that were delivered and invoiced in March (and mostly sold in previous months)

$600k sales = jobs that will be delivered in the coming months ($300k of that is a Watchfire job we sold with 11 displays that we'll install in 4 days in May because we're just swapping out displays in existing cabinets)

These are standard terms used in businesses across all industries, but it seems like perhaps you aren't as well versed in business as you are being a troll on Internet forums.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I think perhaps you don't understand what these terms mean...I never said $300k in profit.

$300k revenue = jobs that were delivered and invoiced in March (and mostly sold in previous months)

$600k sales = jobs that will be delivered in the coming months ($300k of that is a Watchfire job we sold with 11 displays that we'll install in 4 days in May because we're just swapping out displays in existing cabinets)

These are standard terms used in businesses across all industries, but it seems like perhaps you aren't as well versed in business as you are being a troll on Internet forums.

Lol I firmly stand by what I said. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Lol I firmly stand by what I said. Thanks for the confirmation.

You definitely aren't a real business guy.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

To you guys that are trolling - is the reason this upsets you because you've dedicated 20+ years to the sign industry and you don't like to see that somebody who knew nothing about the industry 6 years ago, built something larger than you have in an industry you've devoted your entire career to?

I'm sure it stings for me to be that blunt, but I don't get the jealousy/hate vs being happy that a fellow sign guy made it... I'd be celebrating this (and do) if I was talking to somebody else sharing a story like this, not angry or saying they must be lying.

Looking back through the comments from five years ago - several of you were telling me opening a second location was a terrible idea, but that's one of the key things that lead to our growth, which tells me a lot about our difference in approaches.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You definitely aren't a real business guy.

Never said I was but I do know math. You aren't blowing out $600k or $300k of work a month out of less than 10k SQ ft.
Your sales are a component (or all of) your revenues you numbskull and are stated in the same month. How were your sales higher than your revenue? Did you have some sort of gigantic fucking wave of returns? I know what you're trying to to say but you don't.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You seem very sensitive with getting your feelings hurt. Maybe being overweight was tough on you, but you'd think that'd make someone stronger.

50% of this month was ONE order? Those are the numbers you choose to share? Can I guess your average is $150k a month?

You're trying to sound impressive by giving vague numbers. I'm no accountant, but what you say is revenue and sales don't match what I know.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Never said I was but I do know math. You aren't blowing out $600k or $300k of work a month out of less than 10k SQ ft.
Your sales are a component (or all of) your revenues you numbskull and are stated in the same month. How were your sales higher than your revenue? Did you have some sort of gigantic fucking wave of returns? I know what you're trying to to say but you don't.

Why would we need more than 10k sq ft? We aren't installing things in our shop, we're installing them in the field, lol.

Like I said, $300k of that $600k we sold last month is for a single job that will be installed in 4 days in May (11 Watchfire displays).

You don't need 10k sq ft to install 11 Watchfire displays, you just need a couple bucket trucks and a couple installers who know what they're doing.

Our sales are higher than our revenues because revenue = jobs invoiced and sales = future jobs that will be invoiced.

I think you better get back to running your printers and installing your ACM signs... You're clearly outside your element.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

future jobs that will be invoiced are nothing... those are projections.

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/revenue-vs-sales

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Why would we need more than 10k sq ft? We aren't installing things in our shop, we're installing them in the field, lol.

Like I said, $300k of that $600k we sold last month is for a single job that will be installed in 4 days in May (11 Watchfire displays).

You don't need 10k sq ft to install 11 Watchfire displays, you just need a couple bucket trucks and a couple installers who know what they're doing.

Our sales are higher than our revenues because revenue = jobs invoiced and sales = future jobs that will be invoiced.

I think you better get back to running your printers and installing your ACM signs... You're clearly outside your element.

You're doubling down on stupid. Not a good bet.

Revenue vs Sales: Beginner’s Guide to Revenue and Sales

Explore revenue vs sales topic and learn about the similarities and differences of those metrics and their place in financial performance and growth.

synder.com

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

You seem very sensitive with getting your feelings hurt. Maybe being overweight was tough on you, but you'd think that'd make someone stronger.

50% of this month was ONE order? Those are the numbers you choose to share? Can I guess your average is $150k a month?

You're trying to sound impressive by giving vague numbers. I'm no accountant, but what you say is revenue and sales don't match what I know.

50% of $600k was one job.

I've been very specific about our numbers, I have no reason to hide them.

$300k in March was a record month, but we averaged $250k in the first 3 months of the year @ 22% net profit, but that average is constantly growing (i.e. when we deliver that $300k job in May, that will be a month where we likely do $450-500k in revenue but at a lower net profit % since Watchfire displays don't have the same markup channel letters do).

The overweight thing is just a cheap shot that shows you're upset because you're realizing a guy who knew nothing about the industry 6 years ago has built something larger than you have while dedicating your entire life to it. Same with your buddy who called me a numbskull because between the two of you, you don't understand the difference between sales, revenues, and profits.

Hard to imagine why a couple of forward thinking guys like you aren't celebrating similar wins in your own businesses with such a growth-focused mindset.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

You're doubling down on stupid. Not a good bet.

Revenue vs Sales: Beginner’s Guide to Revenue and Sales

Explore revenue vs sales topic and learn about the similarities and differences of those metrics and their place in financial performance and growth.

synder.com

Did you even read what you just sent before you linked in?

At this point, I'm dipping out.

As I said earlier - me sharing this win wasn't for you guys, it's for the future sign entrepreneurs who are wondering if they can build a self-sustaining business in this industry (just as I was 5 years ago).

The answer is yes, you can and I have (and I know multiple others who have as well)... They just aren't wasting away here on Signs101, they're out there actually building and executing.

I'm going to get some rest and go enjoy day 2 of ISA tomorrow.

If any of you were able to take enough time off from your business to attend ISA, send me a private message and we can grab lunch tomorrow.

I'll see the rest of you guys in another 5-10 years when I sell my business (for more than the value of its assets).

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

50% of $600k was one job.

I've been very specific about our numbers, I have no reason to hide them.

$300k in March was a record month, but we averaged $250k in the first 3 months of the year @ 22% net profit, but that average is constantly growing (i.e. when we deliver that $300k job in May, that will be a month where we likely do $450-500k in revenue but at a lower net profit % since Watchfire displays don't have the same markup channel letters do).

The overweight thing is just a cheap shot that shows you're upset because you're realizing a guy who knew nothing about the industry 6 years ago has built something larger than you have while dedicating your entire life to it. Same with your buddy who called me a numbskull because between the two of you, you don't understand the difference between sales, revenues, and profits.

Hard to imagine why a couple of forward thinking guys like you aren't celebrating similar wins in your own businesses with such a growth-focused mindset.

So you averaged $83k a month so far this year? $1mm a year? Believe me, or not cause I'm just an idiot on the internet... but I do much more than you by myself working from home.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

So you averaged $83k a month so far this year? $1mm a year? Believe me, or not cause I'm just an idiot on the internet... but I do much more than you by myself working from home.

No, $250k/month... Your question was what I averaged a month, not a quarter.

If I did $300k in March alone, how could I possibly have done $250k total in 3 months?

I see math isn't your thing.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

50% of $600k was one job.

I've been very specific about our numbers, I have no reason to hide them.

$300k in March was a record month, but we averaged $250k in the first 3 months of the year @ 22% net profit, but that average is constantly growing (i.e. when we deliver that $300k job in May, that will be a month where we likely do $450-500k in revenue but at a lower net profit % since Watchfire displays don't have the same markup channel letters do).

The overweight thing is just a cheap shot that shows you're upset because you're realizing a guy who knew nothing about the industry 6 years ago has built something larger than you have while dedicating your entire life to it. Same with your buddy who called me a numbskull because between the two of you, you don't understand the difference between sales, revenues, and profits.

Hard to imagine why a couple of forward thinking guys like you aren't celebrating similar wins in your own businesses with such a growth-focused mindset.

You're a fuckin dingdong. Just stop, you're wrong. You're arguing over GAAP. It's in stone and I did not write it.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

No, $250k/month... Your question was what I averaged a month, not a quarter.

You said 300. Now 250 but tomorrow 600. See, this is why they say if you always tell the truth, you won't get your stories mixed up.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

You said 300. Now 250 but tomorrow 600. See, this is why they say if you always tell the truth, you won't get your stories mixed up.

I said we did $300k in March and we averaged $250k in Q1.

$250k * 3 = $750k in Q1

The $600k is a sales order... That job has not been invoiced (and will not be invoiced until May).

You guys don't understand the difference between sales (new orders) and revenue (completed jobs that were invoiced).

You should hit up your local community college and take a business class or two... It will help more than you realize.

I'm making good on my word now and heading out... You guys are on your own now to try and figure out how sales and revenues work.

Good luck!

 

[Boudica]

Smug arrogant attitude. Original business was marketing, so basically a salesman. Selling us a story.
Has everyone working for him doing all the important work, probably including adding up the numbers he's bragging about.


NOW....

Wondering why not everyone is showering him with blind praise and admiration. Spending all day on one zombie thread... You resurrected....replying to the comments all day
While claiming to be at a trade show, and Epcot
All at the same time.

 

[Ryze Signs]

I too have been able to build a successful sign business rather quickly. My business partner and I started a year ago and have had sales increase steadily. We now do about 200k a month in revenue. Yes, the business struggles if either of us leaves for more than a couple days.

Owning a business is great you get to make your own schedule and work half days any 12 hours of every day including weekends that you want.

A second location only makes sense if it's 4 hours or more away from the first one. Otherwise you can just add employees and equipment. Other than those two things the only benefit of buying out another shop is existing clientele.

Yes, it could be possible to get the right team in place to have the shop sustain itself. It will require someone to be well compensated or a partnership in order to keep them. If they have the skill set to run a business why wouldn't they open their own shop?