How many of you could leave your shop behind for at least a month and not have any issues?

[Boudica]

Allow me to circle back to your thread title and ask the op a question....

How many of you could leave your shop behind for at least a month and not have any issues?​

could you have your most important employees leave you behind for a month and you not have any issues?
Can you come in on Saturday and produce what you sell to make sure an important deadline is fulfilled? Can you do a job from sales, entering in all the details into your amazing software produce, finish install .. whatever it is you sell to your client. Are you vested enough in your business to do it all yourself if you had to?

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Good job doing the impossible. Hopefully that's a long term success for you. Some of us have been there and gave you warnings about people going off on their own. Hopefully you get some good years out of your winning team and things go well for you. You're probably a little older than me. Your terminology and understanding of numbers need a lot of work... Most people in this industry enjoy working... making things and putting them on display for everyone to see... so you're idea of what an owner looks like doesn't match 99% of other sign owner. Follow up in 5 years and let us know how it's going.

I enjoy the challenge of building businesses vs building signs, but I've come to love the sign industry in the process.

I also enjoy knowing I've built something that is able to give back to my community and has created opportunities in the lives of the people on my team.

That 28 year old GM I have that will clear ~$200k this year may be overpaid, but he's worth every penny of that to me to run the business and manage the stress (so I don't have to). And I'm pretty sure I'm paying him enough that he will continue to take on that responsibility, because it would be a very long time before he could make that much money again if he went out on his own (and every year he'll make more than the year before if we continue to grow).

But there's several others on the team making 6 figures as well (sales and installers), who are able to provide for their families as a result of the work we're doing.

Even my office manager cleared $50k last year and will continue to make more as we grow.

You're right that some will go off and do their own thing. I've already had one do that, but it's been the best thing that could have happened to us as he was a miserable person with a lot of talent that was a poison to our culture... He needed to go and I'm glad he made the decision on his own before we made it for him.

Our wrap installers are allowed to do color change wraps on the side (I have no desire to do personal vehicles), so they make additional money there which keeps them happy.

We are at a place now where losing an employee isn't going to kill the business. As long as I take care of the team (especially the GM), it should continue to stay on a good path.

Obviously we're not going to see eye-to-eye on the difference between sales and revenue, but that's okay.

I definitely thought you were older... If you're younger than me, you're too young to be jaded and saying things aren't possible, especially when you did 5 years ago

I'm a Big 12 football guy so I'm in Texas often... If I meet a disgruntled sign guy in his 30s while I'm there, I'll ask if it's you

 

[Notarealsignguy]

There ya go. Congratulations on reaching this goal, we all wish we had more free time.
Like Tex, I also like working, especially in this industry and don't see myself quitting anytime soon. We run 3 separate types of businesses that are all tied together, all are things that I enjoy and want to do. Like a hobby with a little extra stress .
I will never understand people like you who only give a shit about a dollar and how little they can possibly do to get that dollar. It sounds miserable.
I'd do this work whether I brought home $1mil a year or 50 cents a year. Makes no difference to me because I like doing it and don't fret over money.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Allow me to circle back to your thread title and ask the op a question....

How many of you could leave your shop behind for at least a month and not have any issues?​

could you have your most important employees leave you behind for a month and you not have any issues?
Can you come in on Saturday and produce what you sell to make sure an important deadline is fulfilled? Can you do a job from sales, entering in all the details into your amazing software produce, finish install .. whatever it is you sell to your client. Are you vested enough in your business to do it all yourself if you had to?

I don't know how to do anything they do, so I may be vested, but I can't do that.

I've intentionally not learned to do those things so I couldn't step in to save the day when needed...I had no choice but to figure out how to build a business that could run itself.

I can't do design (but I have a stable of freelance designers).

I can't run the printers or lay vinyl on substrates.

We outsource metal and electrical fabrication, so we don't even have that skill set in-house.

I can't install a vehicle wrap.

I don't like heights so while I've been up in our bucket trucks, I would be a terrible installer.

I understand signs and I'm pretty good at marketing and selling them. I can build a team that can do these things. And I can manage the technology and finances of our business.

Maybe that doesn't make me a true sign guy, and I'm okay with that... I'm not trying to be a sign dog, I set out to build a sign business (which I have).

And for what it's worth - I'm 6 years in now and aside from the very seldom job where our clients pay us extra to do installs on a weekend, I can count on one hand the number of times we've had to work late or over a weekend to hit a deadline (and in those situations, I did somehow figure enough out to get the work done alongside my wife... But it was super basic stuff like cutting down a bunch of sheets of magnets).

I came from the tech industry and I hated that outages could wreck my nights and weekends, so I said from the start I wanted to build a business that could be profitable without having to deal with BS like that, and I'm happy to report we've been able to.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

There ya go. Congratulations on reaching this goal, we all wish we had more free time.
Like Tex, I also like working, especially in this industry and don't see myself quitting anytime soon. We run 3 separate types of businesses that are all tied together, all are things that I enjoy and want to do. Like a hobby with a little extra stress .
I will never understand people like you who only give a shit about a dollar and how little they can possibly do to get that dollar. It sounds miserable.
I'd do this work whether I brought home $1mil a year or 50 cents a year. Makes no difference to me because I like doing it and don't fret over money.

It's not the money, it's the freedom... Money is a byproduct of success, not the motivator.

I'm still working, I've just started a new venture where I'm focusing most of my time now (and without the stress of cash flow, so I can build it without the pressure).

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It's not the money, it's the freedom... Money is a byproduct of success, not the motivator.

I'm still working, I've just started a new venture where I'm focusing most of my time now (and without the stress of cash flow, so I can build it without the pressure).

I agree and will take back calling you a dingdong. That's a good way to expand or venture out and have done the same. The beginning is brutal and most of us have been there. It does eventually pan out if you stick to it.
Just ask that dodo texassignmaker, guy went from working in a shed in his backyard and slugging around town in some beater truck to having 2 real garages to work out of. He figured it out but works for it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

the goal is in 5 years to work out of an RV like decalman.

 

[Boudica]

I don't know how to do anything they do, so I may be vested, but I can't do that.

I've intentionally not learned to do those things so I couldn't step in to save the day when needed...I had no choice but to figure out how to build a business that could run itself.

I can't do design (but I have a stable of freelance designers).

I can't run the printers or lay vinyl on substrates.

We outsource metal and electrical fabrication, so we don't even have that skill set in-house.

I can't install a vehicle wrap.

I don't like heights so while I've been up in our bucket trucks, I would be a terrible installer.

I understand signs and I'm pretty good at marketing and selling them. I can build a team that can do these things. And I can manage the technology and finances of our business.

Maybe that doesn't make me a true sign guy, and I'm okay with that... I'm not trying to be a sign dog, I set out to build a sign business (which I have).

And for what it's worth - I'm 6 years in now and aside from the very seldom job where our clients pay us extra to do installs on a weekend, I can count on one hand the number of times we've had to work late or over a weekend to hit a deadline (and in those situations, I did somehow figure enough out to get the work done alongside my wife... But it was super basic stuff like cutting down a bunch of sheets of magnets).

I came from the tech industry and I hated that outages could wreck my nights and weekends, so I said from the start I wanted to build a business that could be profitable without having to deal with BS like that, and I'm happy to report we've been able to.

So, your pure intent of this conversation is to inspire an industry full of real people with whom you have nothing in common. It doesn't seem like you have really inspired any one except the jock. You remind me of Robert. Is your newest endeavor sharpening scissors by any chance?

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

So, your pure intent of this conversation is to inspire an industry full of real people with whom you have nothing in common. It doesn't seem like you have really inspired any one except the jock. You remind me of Robert. Is your newest endeavor sharpening scissors by any chance?

I have been pretty clear about who I'm sharing this message for - the entrepreneur who wants to know if they can build a self-sustaining sign business... And there's no reason that couldn't be any of you.

 

[ColorCrest]

I have been pretty clear about who I'm sharing this message for - the entrepreneur who wants to know if they can build a self-sustaining sign business... And there's no reason that couldn't be any of you.

Seems your story is a prime candidate for a former ShopVOX sales team who now operate their own ventures and sign industry podcasts at https://bettersignshop.com. Maybe hit them up because they're always looking to interview and showcase.

Especially new startups and entrepreneurs might benefit from hearing how, exactly, seed money is acquired and risks are handled.

Good luck.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Seems your story is a prime candidate for a former ShopVOX sales team who now operate their own ventures and sign industry podcasts at https://bettersignshop.com. Maybe hit them up because they're always looking to interview and showcase.

Especially new startups and entrepreneurs might benefit from hearing how, exactly, seed money is acquired and risks are handled.

Good luck.

I never had any seed money, just my own pockets!

I know the guys at BSS well and appreciate the work they're putting in to advance our industry.

I haven't been on their podcast, but I enjoy their episodes. If you listen to the one with Paul Gardner/Sign Enterprise, he's somebody who has built his company even further than I have (and works less in his business than I do). I believe in his episode he says they do somewhere in the $7-10M range and at higher net profits than we have since they do their own fabrication. Amazingly, he only works in the business 5 hours/week... Definitely an inspiration!

Appreciate the friendly advice, thank you!

 

[damonCA21]

What a weird setup that you don't know how to do most of the things your business does? Most businesses the owner will have experience of all the various aspects of the job, so can tell if something is being done right. Basically you are saying if your manager left, and maybe took a couple of installers with him, your business would be stuffed overnight as you couldn't keep it running until you found new staff? Sounds a bit of a precarious way to run to me.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

What a weird setup that you don't know how to do most of the things your business does? Most businesses the owner will have experience of all the various aspects of the job, so can tell if something is being done right. Basically you are saying if your manager left, and maybe took a couple of installers with him, your business would be stuffed overnight as you couldn't keep it running until you found new staff? Sounds a bit of a precarious way to run to me.

I know contractors that can do everything and I've used them in the past when we've run into similar issues, but we are getting big enough that it's less of an issue.

Do you think the CEO of Delta knows how to fly a commercial airplane?

I've not learned these things intentionally so I couldn't be tempted to get caught up in the details and I could stay focused on building out the framework for the business.

In my experience it's the guys who know how to do everything in their businesses that get stuck doing everything themselves because "nobody can do it as good as me."

I'm not unique in this, I know several sign business owners in a similar position.

 

[damonCA21]

I'm sure the CEO of Delta has no idea to fly a plane, but then you are talking about a massive corporation, not a small sign business. Pretty sure if they lost a couple of pilots tomorrow they would have plenty of spare ones who could step in.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Not trying to beat a dead horse... But if you don't know how a proper sign is supposed to be made, or the difference between right and wrong install methods, how would you know if your guys are doing dangerous things or not? You start getting a string of failed signs or liable for something that fell and killed someone, that blows this whole plan out of water.

I personally know a new owner that bought a sign shop from the original.. he didn't have any sign industry experience but came from construction. He works there everyday, learning the ins and outs. His employees look up to him and admire working for an owner that's in the trenches with them.

Like I said, good for you if you set a goal and accomplished it and are happy... But remember, these are objects that can, and do kill people when they fail. Several examples of that happening last year and us in the industry see bad methods everyday and wonder who the hell does this kind of stuff.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Not trying to beat a dead horse... But if you don't know how a proper sign is supposed to be made, or the difference between right and wrong install methods, how would you know if your guys are doing dangerous things or not? You start getting a string of failed signs or liable for something that fell and killed someone, that blows this whole plan out of water.

I personally know a new owner that bought a sign shop from the original.. he didn't have any sign industry experience but came from construction. He works there everyday, learning the ins and outs. His employees look up to him and admire working for an owner that's in the trenches with them.

Like I said, good for you if you set a goal and accomplished it and are happy... But remember, these are objects that can, and do kill people when they fail. Several examples of that happening last year and us in the industry see bad methods everyday and wonder who the hell does this kind of stuff.

Lots of ways to build a successful business - I've chosen to focus on hiring the best of the best in the industry and put my trust in them (and it's worked out so far).

I can appreciate somebody being in the trenches, but my team appreciates being paid more than any of our competitors by a pretty wide margin, along with knowing I'm there for them if they need something beyond the norm.

In fact, every team member we have who worked in the sign industry prior to us has told me how much better we operate than other sign companies they've worked for and how much they appreciate working somewhere they are appreciated.

For what it's worth - we take safety very seriously and have monthly safety meetings and my entire crew knows that doing things the right way is more important than taking risks to get the job done. I pay for a service that provide us with a curriculum focused on safety in the sign industry and my lead installers know OSHA and the industry extremely well (and pass that information along to the rest of the team).

 

[Johnny Best]

After reading all these posts by the OP, it seems like two sins out of seven is a sucess also in life. Pride and Wrath.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

After reading all these posts by the OP, it seems like two sins out of seven is a sucess also in life. Pride and Wrath.

Which ones do you succumb to?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Stacey K]

Most people in this industry enjoy working... making things and putting them on display for everyone to see... so you're idea of what an owner looks like doesn't match 99% of other sign owner.

I do have to agree with this...it's a great point.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I know contractors that can do everything and I've used them in the past when we've run into similar issues, but we are getting big enough that it's less of an issue.

Do you think the CEO of Delta knows how to fly a commercial airplane?

I've not learned these things intentionally so I couldn't be tempted to get caught up in the details and I could stay focused on building out the framework for the business.

In my experience it's the guys who know how to do everything in their businesses that get stuck doing everything themselves because "nobody can do it as good as me."

I'm not unique in this, I know several sign business owners in a similar position.

I will concede this point although I think the example isn't a good fit but the principal of working on your business rather than in it is a good one. You can know how to do all aspects of your business and not fill any of the roles which helps tremendously and keeps you nimble. Many people here likely do the same thing, that is just a normal growth progression for a business for the owner to slowly remove themselves from the day to day operations to focus on the larger picture. Nothing really mind blowing.
With that being said, I have made the mistake of getting myself stuck in doing the majority of the graphic design and printing for the exact reason you stated "nobody can do it as good as me." Even though I know this is far from the truth (I am not a good or efficient designer), it's a rut I got myself into knowing full well that it was a bad move from the start. The better you get, the more gun shy and critical you become of hiring your replacement.
The painting side of my business I have stayed out of because I don't like the actual work. I can paint, blast, weld, fiberglass, bodywork pretty much anything the shop has but it takes an act of god to get me out there to do any of it. I have been backed in a corner on that side multiple times but I also watch my friend who owns a body shop totally stuck painting everyday because his too nit picky and nobody can do it as good as him. We also sell commercial trucks and I hate auctions so we have a guy who does it but he is invested in his role so there is no real risk of him quitting.
Either way, It's still not an absentee type of business. If you have a GM, you have to manage them whether they are great and making $200k/yr or green making $50k. You have to be present to do that, not everyday but more often than not or things can and do go sideways pretty quick. Don't discount this just because what you have is working right now, I've seen it happen and have had it happen. It seems like you don't want to hear some of this stuff because what you are doing is working but you always need to listen to people's failures as much or more as people's successes. Without speaking for anyone else, I believe this is what many here have been trying to tell you.