How many of you could leave your shop behind for at least a month and not have any issues?

[WhatsYourSign?]

That's what I'm saying, in order to get this idea of freedom you have, you have to do more and more which is self defeating. Nobody sticks around forever, even 50/50 business partners eventually split, in fact, I saw that unfold the other day with a multi million dollar construction business. 1 guys the field, the other is the office and now it's a disaster.
I'm not an in the weeds person either, I delegate what I don't like and keep the cream for myself. I don't want someone above me that holds the keys to my kingdom, that isn't freedom, that's 1 step away from disaster. You are talking about the future but ignoring the elephant in the room. Everything works until it doesn't and that is why I feel it is important to be engaged in your work and know all aspects of it. You don't have to be the day to day guy or even the one who jumps in to provide a little excess capacity as needed but you do need to be the stopgap when things go off course. It happens and from my experience, there's a cycle every so many years where you lose a good guy and usually have another one that jumps off around the same time.
You keep saying that you pay well, to the point that it seems you regard this as being the #1 motivator of people and it is not. Overpaying traps people and you do not want anyone trapped in their job, that is a catalyst for a toxic work environment. I'm not saying to not pay people well, I'm simply pointing out that it is not enough to keep someone forever. Nothing you do will so always be prepared.

If my GM leaves - I can jump in and do his job... When the Director of Operations before him left, that's exactly what I did for several months before I promoted him and trained him for the role. I can jump in and do sales as well.

Any other roles can be replaced with freelancers/contractors.

- Design: We have a stable of freelance designers from the sign industry that do good work that we've been working with for years. SignPack also plays a key part in some of our designs and they can easily take on more work if needed.

- Production: We can easily shift printing to companies like Signs365 if needed. That may even end up being more cost effective at times.

- Fabrication: We already outsource this and there are tons of them out there...I just met some more this week at ISA.

- Installers: We've built some great relationships with contract installers that we know and trust. There are national sign companies, that I'm sure all of us on here do installs for, who do thousands of installs every year without having installers on their payroll.


There isn't an area of the business that can't be replaced within a few days. It'll cost more in the short-term while we hire and train somebody new, but we've already been through that in every role multiple times... It's not the death sentence you're making it out to be.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

If my GM leaves - I can jump in and do his job... When the Director of Operations before him left, that's exactly what I did for several months before I promoted him and trained him for the role. I can jump in and do sales as well.

Any other roles can be replaced with freelancers/contractors.

- Design: We have a stable of freelance designers from the sign industry that do good work that we've been working with for years. SignPack also plays a key part in some of our designs and they can easily take on more work if needed.

- Production: We can easily shift printing to companies like Signs365 if needed. That may even end up being more cost effective at times.

- Fabrication: We already outsource this and there are tons of them out there...I just met some more this week at ISA.

- Installers: We've built some great relationships with contract installers that we know and trust. There are national sign companies that I'm sure all of us on here do installs for that do thousands of installs every year without having installers on their payroll.


There isn't an area of the business that can't be replaced within a few days. It'll cost more in the short-term while we hire and train somebody new, but we've already been through that in every role multiple times... It's not the death sentence you're making it out to be.

You said you did it for months but now say people can be replaced in a few days, which one is it? It sounds to me like you haven't really been faced with this yet so you have this illusion that you are somehow immune from what everyone else deals with.
I always have listened to the old timers on business and life, they're like the cows, when you see them all sitting, you know a storm is brewing. You take bits and pieces of what they say and when you have a lot of the same pieces from multiple places, it's a good clue that should not be ignored. This stuff comes true, they have witnessed it and are giving you a friendly warning even if it comes off as unfriendly. This grouchy vibe that you are getting here is reality, that good feeling you get from business blogs, books and podcasts is fairy tale shit that makes you happy so you continue listening. Reality is not always roses but people don't buy dead flowers.

 

[damonCA21]

Having been in business for over 30 years, I'm pretty sure I have never used the phrase 'strategic initiatives'. Mind you I have never read any books by 'business gurus' either....
It is nice for the OP that God is sorting all this out for him, Maybe that is where we are going wrong ( although to be honest, I find devil worshipping orgies a lot more fun )

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

You said you did it for months but now say people can be replaced in a few days, which one is it? It sounds to me like you haven't really been faced with this yet so you have this illusion that you are somehow immune from what everyone else deals with.
I always have listened to the old timers on business and life, they're like the cows, when you see them all sitting, you know a storm is brewing. You take bits and pieces of what they say and when you have a lot of the same pieces from multiple places, it's a good clue that should not be ignored. This stuff comes true, they have witnessed it and are giving you a friendly warning even if it comes off as unfriendly. This grouchy vibe that you are getting here is reality, that good feeling you get from business blogs, books and podcasts is fairy tale shit that makes you happy so you continue listening. Reality is not always roses but people don't buy dead flowers.

They can be replaced with more expensive, short-term solutions (exactly like what I described) in a few days.

Hiring and training people for long-term solutions takes longer.

Those cows you're referencing are still in the place they are because they're content to graze. I'll take advice from them on signs, but I'm not going to heed the business advice of somebody who is 20+ years in and is still making/installing signs every day.

As I mentioned previously - I've worked with three different business coaches, all from this industry, and each of them transcended the level of being in the weeds (which is why I paid them so much to coach me).

The things you guys are saying can't be done absolutely can be. It's your own small thinking that is keeping this from being a reality for you.

 

[damonCA21]

If my GM leaves - I can jump in and do his job... When the Director of Operations before him left, that's exactly what I did for several months before I promoted him and trained him for the role. I can jump in and do sales as well.

Any other roles can be replaced with freelancers/contractors.

- Design: We have a stable of freelance designers from the sign industry that do good work that we've been working with for years. SignPack also plays a key part in some of our designs and they can easily take on more work if needed.

- Production: We can easily shift printing to companies like Signs365 if needed. That may even end up being more cost effective at times.

- Fabrication: We already outsource this and there are tons of them out there...I just met some more this week at ISA.

- Installers: We've built some great relationships with contract installers that we know and trust. There are national sign companies, that I'm sure all of us on here do installs for, who do thousands of installs every year without having installers on their payroll.

So essentially you aren't a sign business. You are mainly just a being in business business and resale business? All the actual work is farmed out to other people, and you just generate sales. What happens if all these outside people put their prices up and your customers won't pay extra for the work - as you mention there are lots of massive signs businesses around they could get the work done cheaper? I still think your whole setup is very precarious

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

So essentially you aren't a sign business. You are mainly just a being in business business and resale business? All the actual work is farmed out to other people, and you just generate sales. What happens if all these outside people put their prices up and your customers won't pay extra for the work - as you mention there are lots of massive signs businesses around they could get the work done cheaper? I still think your whole setup is very precarious

The only thing we currently outsource is metal/electrical fabrication, everything else is in-house.

What I described was a backup plan for each area of the business to show the other poster that it's not a death sentence if multiple people were to leave.

 

[damonCA21]

-*--

The only thing we currently outsource is metal/electrical fabrication, everything else is in-house.

What I described was a backup plan for each area of the business to show the other poster that it's not a death sentence if multiple people were to leave.

And graphic design. And installing.

 

[Gino]

they're like the cows, when you see them all sitting, you know a storm is brewing.

I've never seen a cow sit..... anyfrickin'where..... let alone multiples.

 

[damonCA21]

OP. How many actual employees do you have working in house at the moment?

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

-*--


And graphic design. And installing.

We have multiple in-house designers and installers, but there are there are times where the current pipeline outpaces our in-house team but it would be irresponsible to rush out and hire more staff for a temporary surge in business... Having contractors for that is the right solution (vs falling behind and upsetting clients).

Having these relationships in place also provides some redundancy in the event somebody does leave.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

OP. How many actual employees do you have working in house at the moment?

12

 

[Ray Miller]

I'm a little late to this, but do you have screen printing and flatbed capabilities in-house? Wondering because, you haven't really said what t is that makes up all these sales. So, then do you have CNC machines in-house, too?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

They can be replaced with more expensive, short-term solutions (exactly like what I described) in a few days.

Hiring and training people for long-term solutions takes longer.

Those cows you're referencing are still in the place they are because they're content to graze. I'll take advice from them on signs, but I'm not going to heed the business advice of somebody who is 20+ years in and is still making/installing signs every day.

As I mentioned previously - I've worked with three different business coaches, all from this industry, and each of them transcended the level of being in the weeds (which is why I paid them so much to coach me).

The things you guys are saying can't be done absolutely can be. It's your own small thinking that is keeping this from being a reality for yo

Wait. So you'll pay someone to tell you what you want to hear and take that as the gospel but will ignore the people with decades of business experience as if they are beneath you? You think you're something special and maybe you are but there are holes in everything you say.
How long did you argue about sales and revenue? You told me I need to take business classes and come to find out, you follow business coaches. If they were so super successful then why are they taking paid gig work? Fuck man, I can paint you a nice picture of how to make a successful business and actually teach you fundamentals of finance for a few bucks. We can do it at my shop and I will tell you everything I did and how smart I am without telling you how many stupid things I did to make 1 smart thing come to fruition. That's what you are getting from these coaches. Just be humble, it goes a long way.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I've never seen a cow sit..... anyfrickin'where..... let alone multiples.

I gotta make shit up as I go, quit being so reasonable.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Wait. So you'll pay someone to tell you what you want to hear and take that as the gospel but will ignore the people with decades of business experience as if they are beneath you? You think you're something special and maybe you are but there are holes in everything you say.
How long did you argue about sales and revenue? You told me I need to take business classes and come to find out, you follow business coaches. If they were so super successful then why are they taking paid gig work? Fuck man, I can paint you a nice picture of how to make a successful business and actually teach you fundamentals of finance for a few bucks. We can do it at my shop and I will tell you everything I did and how smart I am without telling you how many stupid things I did to make 1 smart thing come to fruition. That's what you are getting from these coaches. Just be humble, it goes a long way.

The coaches I worked with own some of the largest companies in our industry, but they're in a position where they don't have to be tied to the business any longer so when I approached them and offered to pay them a healthy hourly rate ($250-500/hour depending on the coach), they were willing to help me out.

I doubt they needed the money, I would imagine for them they find fulfillment in helping other people and the money was more a sign that I was serious and respected their time.

Go back and read my posts from 5+ years ago... I'm very willing and eager to accept advice. However, I haven't seen any advice to listen to in this thread... Just a bunch of people saying why you can't build a self-sustaining sign business, and I was never going to listen to that.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

I'm a little late to this, but do you have screen printing and flatbed capabilities in-house? Wondering because, you haven't really said what t is that makes up all these sales. So, then do you have CNC machines in-house, too?

No, we outsource those as well.

In-house we do roll-to-roll printing (and what goes with that).

Every time I've run the numbers to bring those in-house, we don't do enough volume for it to make sense to purchase the equipment + hire somebody to run them.

Eventually I'll buy a company that does things like that and metal fabrication in-house, but I haven't found the right opportunity for that yet.

The primary driver of our revenue are larger installs, we don't try to sell a bunch of the smaller jobs (it's easier to sell one job for $50k than it is to sell 100 for $500).

We still do the smaller stuff as it comes to us, that's just not where we're focused.

80% of our revenue each month comes from less than 15% of the actual jobs.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

The difference between WhatsYourSign? and most of the rest of us is that he is a business manager.

You people who are perplexed that he delegates responsibility are not business managers, you are experienced sign makers who have to do business stuff every now and then.

He is a businessman, you make signs.

 

[Gino]

The coaches I worked with own some of the largest companies in our industry, but they're in a position where they don't have to be tied to the business any longer so when I approached them and offered to pay them a healthy hourly rate ($250-500/hour depending on the coach), they were willing to help me out.

I doubt they needed the money, I would imagine for them they find fulfillment in helping other people and the money was more a sign that I was serious and respected their time.

Go back and read my posts from 5+ years ago... I'm very willing and eager to accept advice. However, I haven't seen any advice to listen to in this thread... Just a bunch of people saying why you can't build a self-sustaining sign business, and I was never going to listen to that.

No, you're not. This whole thing is a bogus buncha frickin' crap. You are backpedaling, adding new story lines, bringing new people into this (including God) and you want us to listen ?? Why ?? Because you say it's so, and don't back anything up with REAL examples or data ?? You can see what any one of us do, with a quick search, but you don't provide a single thing. What are you afraid of ?? What are you hiding ?? I'm about done listening to just idle talk, but you keep coming back with more silly stories and this thing is just getting crazier by each and every one of your posts.

I must say, you've made the last 2 days quite fun.

 

[Gino]

The difference between WhatsYourSign? and most of the rest of us is that he is a business manager.

You people who are perplexed that he delegates responsibility are not business managers, you are experienced sign makers who have to do business stuff every now and then.

He is a businessman, you make signs.

You bring nothing to the table, just go back to the children's table and play with them. Cripes, you're annoying on something which takes some knowledge or smarts.

 

[Ray Miller]

So, do you do billboards and things of that size? How many bucket trucks do you have and people in them?