How To question - Metal Sign ??

[96XP]

There is another member here who asks a lot of honest newbie questions... You should follow gnubler
Sure they pick on her, but she has a lot of weird situation/jobs. And eventually some nuggets of good advice emerge. Gotta have a thick skin to realize good advice here.

Thanks for the advice, will do that. And not concerned about being 'picked on' for asking questions. It either brings out the best in people, or the worst - then I weed em' out.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Very good idea, Boudica. I haven't removed them yet, however will check.
I also have a few years experience with automotive paints/primers, so could charge for the prep work and a smooth coating prior to application if necessary.
They are in good shape otherwise, no dents, scratches etc... the reason why they want to reuse.
And they are not overly concerned if the previous raised text shows slightly, as these signs will be seen from a roadway. Something I should have mentioned earlier.
If it's a go, what type of media would suit the application best?

Cheaper to buy new.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Don't worry about attitude. I'm not a millionaire like Tex, but I can get attitude when I'm in a snarky mood. lol

Show me a chick that doesn't and I'll make her the millionaire too

 

[Stacey K]

Just for comparison, estimate the signs both ways. Estimate your time to go, unscrew the sign, bring back to your shop, clean, apply vinyl, hang back up. Then estimate just making the new sign in the shop. You'll be surprised the cost of you removing and cleaning the sign might be very close to the cost + mark-up of a new panel. You could give the customer both options. Even if he's stuck on the old sign board, it's good for you to get used to estimating and presenting options to customers. It's good to get the numbers in your head for the future.

For our baseball diamond, I print sponsor signs on IJ40 with 2mil laminate applied to 4x8 acm boards. A few times we reused boards that were in good shape (businesses that went out of business), just left a few letters that were stubborn and went over the top of them (not ideal but sometimes you look the other way and just do it). They are being viewed from 300 feet away so what Boudica is talking about with seeing a raised image is a complete non-issue in this case. In some of the cases the backer paper was still on the back of the sign - impossible to remove after a couple years.

 

[brdesign]

Customer does not want to pay for new panels - they want to use them over. Thanks anyway; I'll figure it out.

Give the customer a price for brand new panels, and then give them a higher price to refurbish their old panels. The time and labor you put into reworking their old sign will cost more than the new panels. In projects like this, you can waste a lot of your time and money to save the customer a few dollars, but you end up with something that looks like crap and the customer tells everyone it's your fault they look like crap.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

Thanks for the advice, will do that. And not concerned about being 'picked on' for asking questions. It either brings out the best in people, or the worst - then I weed em' out.

the advice you're calling the worst is actually the advice you should be listening to the most.

yes, your client wants to reuse the panels and you are trying to make your client happy. BUT, as the sign professional you should know what's best for their sign and how to give them the best, longest lasting sign. it's your job to educate the client, not allow the client to bully you into doing things the wrong way. which is why Tex is saying it's best to replace the panels.

that aside, i agree 100% with brdesign. once you look at the labor costs and extra on-site trip, you're going to be at least at the same cost (if not more) to replace the panels.

i can honestly say, i have only once accepted a sign that i stripped and redid the lettering on. client wasn't happy with the invoice at the end of the day, but it takes a long time to strip ten year old acrylic panels with cracking trans vinyl. i was able to give them an "i told ya so" because they balked at the cost of new panels. every other time a client has tried to bring their old panels in, i've explained my fee for removing graphics, the fact that there could be ghosting from the previous graphics, simple wear and tear on the material is going to make it weaker, too. why not start fresh with panels and graphics that will last a long time instead of just graphics that will and panels that will start to fail sooner?

smarter, not harder.

 

[AKwrapguy]

For this, if it were me... I would use 3M ij35c, with a Matte laminate.
... that's our standard go to for permanent cal vinyl.

Isn't IJ35 a calender material? Wouldn't you want to use a cast for long term outdoor flat sign?
We always used IJ35 for temp yard signs and super cheap promo decals.

 

[Johnny Best]

Dude, this is a very simple task... Get new metal (acm or 080 or whatever). Apply a laminated print to it and be done. Printed vinyl lasts longer than direct UV print. Why would getting new panels not be an option? Here is a better idea, let a real sign company handle this job.

You sound like an old sign paiter I use to know in the 60s. Learned a lot from him.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

Isn't IJ35 a calender material? Wouldn't you want to use a cast for long term outdoor flat sign?
We always used IJ35 for temp yard signs and super cheap promo decals.

IJ35 will last as long as the print will. no sense wasting money on a premium vinyl when the print won't last.

 

[Gino]

People like me, have become people like you - less the attitude.

It's stupid comebacks like this that make you a target..... and an example.

Murphy's Law comes into play on this one. There's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over.

You say you have some automotive painting background. Well, good for you, because you really need some common sense background. You realize by repainting it, you need to go there once to get all your site survey information. Then, you put all your numbers together. If they accept, you need to go back and take the 2 signs down. Now ya hafta clean them, prep them and paint them. Now, ya hafta print and apply your prints. Next you need to go put them back up.

There's no way in heck you can do all that for less than using brand new panels and having 100% substrates to work with, not to mention how long ya hafta wait for your paint to cure entirely so there's no lifting. One less trip and about a 1/4 of the supplies needed to do the job.

He was wrong, you aren't taking customers off our hands, you are creating dumber customers by giving them false hope with your nonsesne.


Besides, you already have the attitude, just a stupid one.

 

[gnubler]

Give the customer a price for brand new panels, and then give them a higher price to refurbish their old panels. The time and labor you put into reworking their old sign will cost more than the new panels. In projects like this, you can waste a lot of your time and money to save the customer a few dollars, but you end up with something that looks like crap and the customer tells everyone it's your fault they look like crap.

Gnubler can take the abuse, as well as dish it out. But really Tex, why the dick attitude? You used to be the most helpful member here. He said he's new and looking for different options and you guys pounce on him immediately.

Somewhere on the forum Gino said "Never, as in never, allow a customer to dictate how they want a sign made or installed." I made it into a poster in my office with a picture of a cheap-a$$ realtor who insisted on installing their own sign. It spent all winter at a 30-degree lean and they tried to prop up the posts with rocks, but it finally fell over. I laughed about that, especially when they came back and ordered a second sign and were now into the ordeal for more than if they'd initially let us do it the right way.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It's stupid comebacks like this that make you a target..... and an example.

Murphy's Law comes into play on this one. There's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over.

You say you have some automotive painting background. Well, good for you, because you really need some common sense background. You realize by repainting it, you need to go there once to get all your site survey information. Then, you put all your numbers together. If they accept, you need to go back and take the 2 signs down. Now ya hafta clean them, prep them and paint them. Now, ya hafta print and apply your prints. Next you need to go put them back up.

There's no way in heck you can do all that for less than using brand new panels and having 100% substrates to work with, not to mention how long ya hafta wait for your paint to cure entirely so there's no lifting. One less trip and about a 1/4 of the supplies needed to do the job.

He was wrong, you aren't taking customers off our hands, you are creating dumber customers by giving them false hope with your nonsesne.


Besides, you already have the attitude, just a stupid one.

In another thread, he said he charges $20/hr. so maybe he CAN do it cheaper than spending $50 on new panels.

 

[96XP]

Cheaper to buy new.

It'll be a 3.5hr round trip plus near a hundred in fuel.
I also have a close friend with a large successful sign-shop who services most large applications in the Vancouver area.
I'll call him up on pricing and delivery.

Gnubler can take the abuse, as well as dish it out. But really Tex, why the dick attitude? You used to be the most helpful member here. He said he's new and looking for different options and you guys pounce on him immediately.

Somewhere on the forum Gino said "Never, as in never, allow a customer to dictate how they want a sign made or installed." I made it into a poster in my office with a picture of a cheap-a$$ realtor who insisted on installing their own sign. It spent all winter at a 30-degree lean and they tried to prop up the posts with rocks, but it finally fell over. I laughed about that, especially when they came back and ordered a second sign and were now into the ordeal for more than if they'd initially let us do it the right way.

"He said he's new and looking for different options and you guys pounce on him immediately."

Absolutely correct, and the reason I came here to pose my question - for guidance; and to the majority of replies, I thank you kindly.


Re Texas_Signmaker:
"In another thread, he said he charges $20/hr."
Not sure where he got that from. I would address him directly, however read the rules first.


Thus, cutting to the chase:
Please adhere to the following guidelines* so that we may keep the Signs101 Forum running smoothly, with a minimal amount of drama. We strive to maintain a FRIENDLY and PROFESSIONAL atmosphere.

1. The maxim "Treat others how you want to be treated; Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; Speak to and of others how you would like to be spoken to and about; Feel about others how you would have them feel about you; Think of others the way you would like to be thought of; Make an effort to respect even the unrespectable." is the type of environment we're creating here at Signs101 Forum. This most golden of rules is particularly important!

3. Harassment of any kind is neither wanted here, nor is it acceptable.

 

[Gino]

You just proved to most of us, our points. You're gonna spend about 28 hours in fixing and painting old material, plus $300 in fuel. You can't get the exact measure over the phone and make one trip ?? Your way(s) don't make any sense. The rudeness is coming from your stubbornness. Ya either want help or ya don't. Ya don't ask for help and as you don't get the answers you want start copping an attitude and reading us the rules. For cripes sake, we know the rules.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Gnubler can take the abuse, as well as dish it out. But really Tex, why the dick attitude? You used to be the most helpful member here. He said he's new and looking for different options and you guys pounce on him immediately.

Somewhere on the forum Gino said "Never, as in never, allow a customer to dictate how they want a sign made or installed." I made it into a poster in my office with a picture of a cheap-a$$ realtor who insisted on installing their own sign. It spent all winter at a 30-degree lean and they tried to prop up the posts with rocks, but it finally fell over. I laughed about that, especially when they came back and ordered a second sign and were now into the ordeal for more than if they'd initially let us do it the right way.

I'm still the most helpful, but I got to keep y'all on your toes every now and then. Besides... My first reply to his/her/them thread was informative and cordial. His/her/their reply to my advise was a list of things they thought would be wrong with it, and in the same sentence admitted having no experience with applying vinyl to a board. My reply of "getting a real sign company" was legit.. they/he/she/it/them/her/his/their/who/what/where/when/how/'s has no idea what's going on and sometimes best to sub or pass on the job.

 

[Gino]

How many frickin people are involved with this now ?? I'm lost. Too many actors in this show.

 

[Black Star]

I have had plenty of customers that are so cheap that they want to reuse shitty panels. Yes, as a sign professional I know better but if I don't do what the customer asks, they'll go to my competition and have them do it. A lot of people take for granted the areas that they live. Not everyone can afford a brand new sign. Most of my clients are dirt poor and can barely afford the cheapest of signs. I would love to make brand new signs for all of my customers but that isn't realistic.

 

[Johnny Best]

These people think this is Home Depot. You find a guy with an orange vest and ask him a question. He tells you to get a pro to do the job. You get pissed off at the guy and you , he, she, it thinks he should be treated better.
Free info comes with a side of grief. The grief will be good for that thin skin you, he, she or it has.

 

[96XP]

Sorry I couldn't hang and bicker with some of you, had something more important to do - and took the wife out for a lovely diner instead.
Have a wonderful evening!

 

[garyroy]

How many frickin people are involved with this now ?? I'm lost. Too many actors in this show.

"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players:
They have their entrances and their exits..."
Shakespeare: As You Like It: Scene 2: Act 7