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I Built My Own Sign Software Using AI. So Should You.

iam3toed

New Member
To make this more interesting, read in the voice of Morgan Freeman.

I've been in the sign industry for 20 years. For most of those years, I've watched us all complain about our software. Everybody knows the workflow can really SUCK! Everybody does it anyway because there's nothing better. Or they're using software that costs too much and still doesn't do half of what you need.

Screw... that.

I didn't want to waste my life on that kind of work. Why should I? I'm too pretty. I needed a better solution!

So I built one.
Actually, I built several. And they work on real world projects at 4x speed. That's not boasting. That's numbers.

Now here's the part that's going to make some of you skeptical. I built these with AI.

Before you close this thread...
I know. The AI conversation in this industry has been almost entirely about clients showing up with terrible ChatGPT logos and expecting us to print them on a monument sign. I get the frustration. But that's one tiny, annoying corner of what AI actually does.

Here's what nobody in the sign industry is talking about yet. AI can help you BUILD your solutions, custom fit. Not clip art. Not logos. Actual working software that solves actual problems in your shop.

I don't have a programming degree. I'm a sign industry professional. I could not have built these applications on my own. What I do have is domain expertise from years of soul-crushing, monotonous work. I know exactly what I want and exactly where the existing tools fall short. That knowledge is the hard part. That's the part AI can't do right now.

What AI can do is write code. And it's gotten scary good at it.

What it actually looks like
There's a lot of hype. Building software with AI is not "hey ChatGPT, make me an ADA app." That gets you nothing useful.

What it actually looks like is more like this. You sit down and you think hard about the problem. What does the workflow need to be? What are the inputs? What are the outputs? What are the edge cases? You sketch it out. You make decisions about how things should work based on your years of experience doing the actual work.

Then you describe what you need to AI, piece by piece. You test what it gives you. I make web apps so it gives me a webpage to review. It's wrong sometimes. It's wrong a lot, actually. But you catch the mistakes because you know the domain. You know that Braille translation has rules that most programmers have never heard of. You know that sign maps need to reference room numbers a certain way. You know what the production floor needs to see on a shop drawing. You know your problems.

The AI handles the code. You handle everything else. The design, the decisions, the testing, the iteration. It's a tool in your hands, not a magic button.

It takes patience and it takes critical thinking. You have to be willing to look at what AI gives you and say "no, that's wrong, here's why" and push it in the right direction. There are features I rebuilt over and over before they worked right. And there are still some bugs.

But the fact that someone from the sign industry can build production-grade tools like this at all? That's the point.

Five years ago, if I wanted to build a custom application that solves my custom problem, I would have needed to hire a development team (tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars). Developers who don't know the sign industry. I'd spend half the project just explaining what a message schedule is. That barrier is basically gone now. All that cost drops to the price of your AI subscription and your extra time. This is real right now. $100,000 to a $1000? Incredible. The software industry is collapsing... right... into... your lap.

Why this matters for you
Think about that for a second. Every one of you has deep knowledge about some part of this business. Maybe you've been doing vehicle wraps for 30 years and you know exactly how the estimating process should work but no software does it right. Maybe you run a shop and your job tracking workflow is held together with sticky notes and prayers. Maybe you've got an install crew and there's no good way to track field progress.

You know the problem better than any software company ever will. And now you have access to tools that can help you build the solution. Your solution. You don't need a computer science degree. You need to be good at thinking through problems, which... you already are. That's literally the job.

The real AI conversation
Most of the AI conversation has been noise. Bad logos, overpromising, hype. But there's a quieter thing happening underneath all that noise. Regular people in specialized industries are using AI to build tools that solve their own problems. Not billion dollar companies. People like me, building exactly what they need because they finally can.

That's the AI story worth paying attention to. Not the logos.

DO NOT SLEEP ON THIS.

Let me know if you want a tutorial. I'll write a post here to show you how to make something really simple to get your feet wet.

- i am 3toed, struck by lightning, bit by a cobra
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 user

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
As soon as I realized you wrote this post in AI (after the first sentence) I ignore the rest.
 
  • Agree
  • Informative
Reactions: 8 users

iam3toed

New Member
Texas_Signmaker
This is actually an interesting experiment. Just three questions for you and our audience:

1. How confident are you that AI wrote this? (Not a challenge. I'm genuinely curious.)
2. If the information is useful, does it matter?
3. If you aren't able to tell, how will you know what to read?

I'm assuming you liked the Morgan Freeman part.
 

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
Booo. I'm going to start an anti ai campaign.
The messaging will be written by a human, and use way less words.
 
  • Agree
  • Hilarious!
Reactions: 4 users

iam3toed

New Member
:p Beautiful nerds, those thoughts up there are mine. They came from my brain. I wrote them with my human fingers. I do use AI for grammar/spelling check, and I do take its suggestions if I approve.
Wait... maybe I am AI and I just don't know it. ONE SEC! BRB!

*footsteps running away*
*footsteps running back*

Ok I just peed! Pretty sure I'm human. Does AI pee? Not yet it doesn't.

victor bogdanov
There are a bunch of sites that will check if something is written with AI. I would compare across several of them. Also, there are plenty of false positives because those large language models are trained on our words. Also, also, there are sites that can make AI written things sound human. So it doesn't really matter anymore :eek:. This is kinda my point with those three questions I asked. Hopefully they didn't come off as rude. I work with this stuff almost every day for most of the day. I think about it a lot. Definitely curious about how other people are thinking about it. WildWestDesigns has some great input btw.

Texas_Signmaker
I also feel gross about people using AI generated verbiage and passing it off as their own. Super disingenuous. I don't feel gross about AI written info. It just needs to be useful.

Boudica
Too many words. Got it. I'll employ maximum brevity in future posts.
I like Turtles as well.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 user

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Texas_Signmaker
This is actually an interesting experiment. Just three questions for you and our audience:

1. How confident are you that AI wrote this? (Not a challenge. I'm genuinely curious.)
2. If the information is useful, does it matter?
3. If you aren't able to tell, how will you know what to read?

I'm assuming you liked the Morgan Freeman part.
AI takes longer to get their point across than a woman... Without the chance of getting laid.
 
  • Agree
  • Hilarious!
Reactions: 3 users

LizKeenan

New Member
This is a very grounded take. I got into illustrator scripting after finding the Ladygin GitHub referenced on here. I’ve been able to build a complete paneling automated script for cut and bleed all in illustrator for odd cuts. This had confounded company after company I’ve been at on how to keep bleeding on overlaps, and panel both horizontal and vertical on one piece. I’ve also made label makers for panels, straight bar with auto size detection, a scale tool for engineer drawings to get to at size. These have made our shop a lot more efficient. Just like the poster says AI can’t make anything useful on its own, it takes careful iteration and knowledge of the industry.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 users

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
My first thought when reading something someone wrote or listening to them is whether or not they know what they are talking about. If I can learn something and it's overall interesting, I'm down to listen/read. Knowing that making software is only 20% programming and the rest is planning, debugging and testing, I don't see a compelling use to use AI authored software. Annotated code samples for most applications are freely available and if you know enough to work with those, you at least get a good idea of what the code is doing. AI generated code tends to be a mess and potentially full of bugs that can be insanely hard to troubleshoot, or can possibly compromise security.

-A guy who loves to post malicious code in public places for AI to scrape.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 user

iam3toed

New Member
LizKeenan
You may have the only solution for that problem. That's awesome. Are you using LLMs like Chat or Claude to help with the code?

AI generated code tends to be a mess and potentially full of bugs that can be insanely hard to troubleshoot, or can possibly compromise security.
That's a really good point that I missed. The security point is especially important. I would leave sensitive things (passwords, personal info, money) to the professionals. I use Memberstack to handle membership so I can track interest and filter out bots. If you know of a better way lemme know! But, if it's an in-house problem you want to solve like what LizKeenan did, I say go for it. This is especially good for people that have little coding experience (action script 2005 haha) and zero time to learn it like me.

As far as the messy code goes, ya, spaghetti slop. There are some very useful ways to solve for slop that have worked well for me. I like keeping it simple with html/css/js. Nothing to install. You can easily iterate, and you can turn on coverage while you work in a browser to track what's being used. You can also easily add console tracking to find those bugs you're talking about. This has worked well enough for me. I'm waaaaaay more productive than I was before and I'm actually having fun doing work that I used to hate because I'm using apps that solve my specific problems.

If you looked under the hood though, you might shake your head at my useful Frankenstein. On the flipside, it might actually be fine. But, I wouldn't be able to tell you. This is part of the point. Time + domain expertise is the real moat now. Software is collapsing.

I predict this slop is a passing issue. These LLMs are going to understand the coding logic better than all nerds combined. Maybe similar to how these diffusion transformers have evolved for video? Although I do find the earlier AI videos more entertaining (look up AI gymnastics from a year ago), they were easily identifiable as AI. Today there are videos where you can't tell. I bet code will be like this too.

Smoke_Jaguar
Do you have experience with using AI for coding much? You can check out my slop at 3toedsoftware.com. Like i said, I use Memberstack to handle membership, track interest and filter bots. There's a demo that doesn't require your signup shtuff if you're sensitive to signups -> https://www.3toedsoftware.com/apps/mapping-slayer/mapping-slayer?demo=true

I'd be super curious to know your thoughts on what I made. Not asking you to learn the app. It's probably not something you would use. Just kick the tires maybe. You seem to have some programming chops.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Why read all this ?? I know I wrote a lotta essays over the years, but this is nonsense. I can't stay focused because you just ramble regardless if you pee or need to be oiled. Can you explain in a few sentences why you're here ??
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 3 users

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
I already help people fix printers here, but I find that enjoyable. Code review is about as fun as a root canal.
 
  • Hilarious!
Reactions: 1 user

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Sometimes the difference between AI ramblings and people rambling is the latter can smoke some really good weed.
 
  • Hilarious!
  • Agree
Reactions: 2 users

Think713

New Member
To make this more interesting, read in the voice of Morgan Freeman.

I've been in the sign industry for 20 years. For most of those years, I've watched us all complain about our software. Everybody knows the workflow can really SUCK! Everybody does it anyway because there's nothing better. Or they're using software that costs too much and still doesn't do half of what you need.

Screw... that.

I didn't want to waste my life on that kind of work. Why should I? I'm too pretty. I needed a better solution!

So I built one.
Actually, I built several. And they work on real world projects at 4x speed. That's not boasting. That's numbers.

Now here's the part that's going to make some of you skeptical. I built these with AI.

Before you close this thread...
I know. The AI conversation in this industry has been almost entirely about clients showing up with terrible ChatGPT logos and expecting us to print them on a monument sign. I get the frustration. But that's one tiny, annoying corner of what AI actually does.

Here's what nobody in the sign industry is talking about yet. AI can help you BUILD your solutions, custom fit. Not clip art. Not logos. Actual working software that solves actual problems in your shop.

I don't have a programming degree. I'm a sign industry professional. I could not have built these applications on my own. What I do have is domain expertise from years of soul-crushing, monotonous work. I know exactly what I want and exactly where the existing tools fall short. That knowledge is the hard part. That's the part AI can't do right now.

What AI can do is write code. And it's gotten scary good at it.

What it actually looks like
There's a lot of hype. Building software with AI is not "hey ChatGPT, make me an ADA app." That gets you nothing useful.

What it actually looks like is more like this. You sit down and you think hard about the problem. What does the workflow need to be? What are the inputs? What are the outputs? What are the edge cases? You sketch it out. You make decisions about how things should work based on your years of experience doing the actual work.

Then you describe what you need to AI, piece by piece. You test what it gives you. I make web apps so it gives me a webpage to review. It's wrong sometimes. It's wrong a lot, actually. But you catch the mistakes because you know the domain. You know that Braille translation has rules that most programmers have never heard of. You know that sign maps need to reference room numbers a certain way. You know what the production floor needs to see on a shop drawing. You know your problems.

The AI handles the code. You handle everything else. The design, the decisions, the testing, the iteration. It's a tool in your hands, not a magic button.

It takes patience and it takes critical thinking. You have to be willing to look at what AI gives you and say "no, that's wrong, here's why" and push it in the right direction. There are features I rebuilt over and over before they worked right. And there are still some bugs.

But the fact that someone from the sign industry can build production-grade tools like this at all? That's the point.

Five years ago, if I wanted to build a custom application that solves my custom problem, I would have needed to hire a development team (tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars). Developers who don't know the sign industry. I'd spend half the project just explaining what a message schedule is. That barrier is basically gone now. All that cost drops to the price of your AI subscription and your extra time. This is real right now. $100,000 to a $1000? Incredible. The software industry is collapsing... right... into... your lap.

Why this matters for you
Think about that for a second. Every one of you has deep knowledge about some part of this business. Maybe you've been doing vehicle wraps for 30 years and you know exactly how the estimating process should work but no software does it right. Maybe you run a shop and your job tracking workflow is held together with sticky notes and prayers. Maybe you've got an install crew and there's no good way to track field progress.

You know the problem better than any software company ever will. And now you have access to tools that can help you build the solution. Your solution. You don't need a computer science degree. You need to be good at thinking through problems, which... you already are. That's literally the job.

The real AI conversation
Most of the AI conversation has been noise. Bad logos, overpromising, hype. But there's a quieter thing happening underneath all that noise. Regular people in specialized industries are using AI to build tools that solve their own problems. Not billion dollar companies. People like me, building exactly what they need because they finally can.

That's the AI story worth paying attention to. Not the logos.

DO NOT SLEEP ON THIS.

Let me know if you want a tutorial. I'll write a post here to show you how to make something really simple to get your feet wet.

- i am 3toed, struck by lightning, bit by a cobra
What problems do you think AI needs to solve for sign shops thats of actual value? Because I can't think of one.
 

LizKeenan

New Member
What problems do you think AI needs to solve for sign shops thats of actual value? Because I can't think of one.
Off the top of my head there is no single product that is as good as designing complicated layouts, gradients, clip masks ect as illustrator. The issue is certain production and sign related tools are missing. Things like bitmap editing, block shadows, unround corner vector tools and such Corel, Flexi, and Composer all have tools that are not native to illustrator as well as many production related tools. AI can help bridge gaps with tools in those programs or bounce new workflows off of. It is currently very fractured in the industry what your preferred software is.
 

Think713

New Member
Off the top of my head there is no single product that is as good as designing complicated layouts, gradients, clip masks ect as illustrator. The issue is certain production and sign related tools are missing. Things like bitmap editing, block shadows, unround corner vector tools and such Corel, Flexi, and Composer all have tools that are not native to illustrator as well as many production related tools. AI can help bridge gaps with tools in those programs or bounce new workflows off of. It is currently very fractured in the industry what your preferred software is.
Well thats where you and I differ. I have worked across several softwares, and TO ME the value in the designer is the versatility in being able to use different softwares. For everything Print I would use Illustrator. For sign design, I would use flexi. I understand your point. And it has value, but this whole industry is based around making things work for you. Illustrator is not a hard software to use. If you need to unround a corner you just manipulate anchor points. Illustrator will unround corners that are already told that it HAS been rounded prior from said anchor point. So it depends on the users level of skill IMO. Does that mean it could have better tools? 1000% but I don't see how AI has any bearing on that fact.
THERE ISNT ANYTHING that building an AI based production merchant/softwre does that any other software on the market already does. There are several to choose from. I just don't get the push. Its not helping anything. And until AI perfects the workflow for any particular business, its always going to have some drawbacks in its workflow and how the users interact with said software.
To me it just seems like nerds keep wanting to slowly infiltrate and take over blue/yellow collar industries.. and honestly Im not here for it.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
LizKeenan said:
Off the top of my head there is no single product that is as good as designing complicated layouts, gradients, clip masks ect as illustrator. The issue is certain production and sign related tools are missing. Things like bitmap editing, block shadows, unround corner vector tools and such Corel, Flexi, and Composer all have tools that are not native to illustrator as well as many production related tools. AI can help bridge gaps with tools in those programs or bounce new workflows off of. It is currently very fractured in the industry what your preferred software is.

So-called AI isn't going to make up for certain features missing in Adobe Illustrator. It's too dumb to do so. Some of the items you mentioned can be addressed with Astute Graphics' plugin suite. It's possible to get feature requests incorporated into the app. The Illustrator development teams looks at feature requests and bug reports at the Illustrator user voice forum:

Regarding pixel-based image editing, I don't want Illustrator duplicating lot of features from Photoshop. It's not difficult to move vector elements into Photoshop or bring assets from Photoshop into Illustrator.
 

Think713

New Member
So-called AI isn't going to make up for certain features missing in Adobe Illustrator. It's too dumb to do so. Some of the items you mentioned can be addressed with Astute Graphics' plugin suite. It's possible to get feature requests incorporated into the app. The Illustrator development teams looks at feature requests and bug reports at the Illustrator user voice forum:

Regarding pixel-based image editing, I don't want Illustrator duplicating lot of features from Photoshop. It's not difficult to move vector elements into Photoshop or bring assets from Photoshop into Illustrator.
Exactly... If you're an adobe user, and you dont understand the difference between ps and ai, and cant use them synergistically then, probably should go learn the software and understand its purpose and what its capable of. It's very easy to just drag and drop elements from one software to the other.

I can't speak on Corel. Though I know Corel, like flexi, can do some things illustrator does not.
 
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