I Really Need Opinions

[Techman]

The nay-sayers on this thread, while giving good advice to a degree, are also sick and tired of newbies showing up, making use of the new cheaper technologies and giving them a run FOR THEIR MONEY. I can't blame them for feeling that way. They have a LOT of time and money invested in this craft.
"Can't handle the Truth" is what they fear.
Go for it..make or break...time will tell.

No. Its nothing about the above. IT has NOTHING to do with some noobie showing up and giving me a run for my money.

First of all. I do not wish to see anyone continue to believe this work is just a matter of buying a machine and a yellow page ad and then just "dabble" at it.

But it does have every thing do do with the untrained who is not even at the minimum level of rank amatuer in experience. Who gets into this or any other business untested, untrained, and selling their wares under the pretence of a properly trained professional designer and builder. It is in effect stealing a job.

Why do I say it that way? Because it steals the from the customer the right to make informed decisions based on bad advice given from a inexperienced sticker installer. It steal from the customer because the materials used may not be the best choice. It steals from the skilled tradesman because this beginner merely poses as one who has made the commitment. It is living off of the respect and the training and knowledge it takes to do a proper job.

And then, this inexperienced person having no idea what the true value of the product is worth undercharges for the work. Which in the end makes a fully trained biz person look like he is a greedy overcharging rascal.

All of the above makes it very difficult for those who do this for a living or trying to build a genuine buiness. All it takes is someone with a genuine interest contacting a local sign shop and getting some hands on experience. Sitting behind a computer screen posting for pointers in a complex business is not the way to fullfill a fantacy.

In the end it harms the properly trained persons who make up the industry.

My post to this thread not targeting Sibole. I pray she gets her wishes after getting some proper experience. It is merely a reply to the quote..

 

[iSign]

good points Curtis. I'll clarify that I also have no ill will towards Sibole, & wish her good fortune. Nay saying just happens to be the best damn adivce of all sometimes.

 

[steriltech]

Hi Sibole,
I'm also new here These guys and gals will help you anyway they can even when it comes to advice even on your spelling! keep in mind alot of people here are real pros and you are just thinking small so buy small.

I started out with a roland 900 12" inch desk top cutter. Now own three rolands the biggest is a 48 inch cx-500. I find my self going back to my little guy most offen. No digital screen just simple buttons. Just stay away from the stikas...Were the real money come to play is in the vinyl.

Here a 15" roll of 50 yards, Black or white is over $50 and other colors is higher. To me that is were it gets expensive in vinyl be sure you will need lots of colors. Also a great cutting program and they are NOT cheap. as I learned..

Keep in mind if you buy cheap you will get cheap. So do your self a favor read and learn as much as you can before taking any steps. There is nothing worse then spending your hard earn money on some cheap cutter and hating your self after you realized what a big mistake you just done!!

 

[steriltech]

"It is in effect stealing a job"
Hey techman,
As a newbie coming on board I can relate to those words,but there is change in the wind! Yes It's a lot easyer to get in to this biz and look like a pro doing it! Hey I will be getting a bashing for this one!

Remember when only those with deep pockets could only afford a computer? Well guess what its a house hold name now. The programs companies are starting to sell are called easy to learn and look like a pro while doing it,and guess what it's only going to get worse! Just as the manual can opener I remembered now you can get a one touch that dose it on own its own!

Just like the 35mm camers who want those anymore? In a flash we now have over 10 megapix cameras that make us look like pros. I just created a photo album for some one and the funny thing is I placed that person in places she was never in! and you could not tell the differance from a real photo.

What dose this have to do with the biz well sign companies are making it alot easyer for any one to look like a pro! Well take aroura fills for instance remember when you had to create a back ground for wording with aroura fills pick what back ground you want enter text and hit that little button and walla! your a instint pro.....Hey I'm not taking nothing away from the sign shops they do awesome work.I'm just saying hate the companies that are going making to it easyer for everyone to look like a pro and do it cheaper ,and make fully trained biz person look like he is a "greedy overcharging rascal."

I see change in the wind already just look and see just how many shops have poped up? I see more an more every time I turn and look. Hey its soon when someone will make a home base cnc machine for cheap. CarveWright are selling a home base caring machine and guess what sears has one that looks just like it? for under $1,500 imagin how the custom carver feels like! Gots to love the future!!

 

[MAB SIGNS]

I just picked up the Mike Stevens book, great investment since I came from the fabrication/ installation side of things to learn design. I agree with the idea of buying Corel and learning to do your own designs first. You can have the local sign shop cut your designs until you feel like your investing in a plotter is justified. This will allow you to learn from them and avoid alot of headaches you will run into diving into it yourself. This forum as well as all the sign magazines will give you alot of kowledge too.

Sign Mags:

Signs Of the Times
Sign Builder
Sign Business
SignCraft

 

[Techman]

In a flash we now have over 10 megapix cameras that make us look like pros

Thats right. You make my point perfectly. LOOK LIKE a pro. I can look like a doctor too. Al I need is a set of scrubs and a stethoscope.
When actually the look is all Bullshyte..

 

[signage]

Looking like a pro and performing like a pro are two different things. Just because you have pro looking equipment doesn't make you a pro. A lot of people have table saws but lets see them build cabinets to the specified size and be square in all surfaces!

 

[steriltech]

Bullshyte it maybe ...but if I was a paitent an saw him and you dressed the same way.I will go with the cheapest It's all about the buck! Good vs great everyone knows that great is better ,but cheaper is easyer and someone starting a small flashing biz is going to do it cheaper even if you have a phD like the one under Techman..The customer dose not know wich is better but cheaper will win always!.

Its all about the customer and the customer will always go towards the cheapest. The way I see it is we are not here for the people.Sign makers are here for the person whom want to attract the people,After all that is what a sign is for. If that make any senece at all?

I personaly don't want a shop,but if I was to do it I would go via the web.It's easyer less hassel and attract more. Yes big signs are great money but the adverage person just wants something simple.

I sit and read alot of threads here I always see the little guys get stomped on when he or she ask for a opion on starting a little home biz. Hey read my last thread I got bash for misspelling a couple of words "Please double check your plain English.

You are asking hard working professionals to take you seriously AND to offer some of their valuable time.

Why don't you take the time to write like a professional"

This is what I got I did not ask to have my spelling checked I just wanted to reach out and ask a question and he calls himself a pro . As a newbie I can simpleize with Sibole If I can I will help her any way I can.

 

[steriltech]

Hey Sinage a small cutting machine could do that it dose not take skill it takes pro looking equipment lol.

 

[andy]

As far as the original poster is concerned my advice would be to rethink the whole idea. Manufacturing signs which people are prepared to pay good money for is much harder than it looks. You are not alone in seeing the much lower prices offered by sign equipment companies and thinking "I'll get into that". There have been thousands of new entrants into the sign industry in the last few years. From my experience these new people end up in competition with similar new entrants or established shops which have not kept pace in the race to stay ahead. The only unique selling point is a low price end of story. Forget better service, specifications and design. If you are swimming down at the bottom price is king. Before you start any kind of business you need to plan the boring bits like overhead, profit margins, breakeven points etc.

What I would recommend to anyone thinking of getting into "signs" is to step back and ignore "signs" for a moment. The sign business is a business like any other. Profitability, overheads and hourly rates are THE most important things to consider- anyone can say "yay, I make signs aren't I great" not everyone can say "I have a great business with good prospects and profits, which makes signs".

Assuming that customers always gravitate to the cheapest supplier is, to be blunt, absolute cr@p. Cheap customers love cheap suppliers and the two parties then engage in a mutual process of paying everyone around as little as possible. Customers aren't paying you the right price so you chip your suppliers or you use the cheapest materials you can find.

Most new people have the mistaken idea that established prices for signage and related products is purely motivated by greed. The reality is that established signmakers have carefully worked out their pricing system in order to provide a half decent standard of living and a modest profit. Established signmakers calculate prices in great detail allowing for overheads and expenses which the new person simply does not have the experience or expertise to allow for.

If you charge shoestring prices you have no hope of moving up the food chain- you will always be making cheap signs for cheap people- you just won't have the skills or equipment needed to make the high quality work people are prepared to pay a decent rate for.

Newbies ask the questions and get the honest answers- usually these aren't what they wanted to hear.

As we are all involved in the production of goods which rely on the correct use of the English language I will let others decide if being able to spell and structure sentences correctly is a big deal or not. Common sense would indicate to me that an illiterate sign maker has a fundamental problem

 

[signage]

Steriltech I didn't say anything about pro looking equipment! Cheap equipment with a person that know how to adjust and how to operate can do it with cheap equipment, but with this cheap equipment it would take longer due to not being consistent with out constantly checking and adjusting to keep accuracy!

 

[skyhigh]

Bullshyte it maybe ...but if I was a paitent an saw him and you dressed the same way.I will go with the cheapest It's all about the buck! .

Let me know the next time you need a heart transplant.... I got a pair of scrubs and a stethescope, AND I only charge 500 bucks.:Big Laugh

 

[iSign]

Why is it that some one always has to be sarcastick....I had only a few mins to reply to a thread and didn't have time to go back and check my spelling! So hear cometh the bashing.....

"You are asking hard working professionals to take you seriously AND to offer some of their valuable time".

I simply wanted to reach out and hopefully meet some one else near by in the biss!! and what did I get? some ones opinion about my spelling . I see miss spellings all the time its called read in between the lines you know what the person is trying to say. You don't have to bring it to the publics attention.Have you ever heard of some times you should keep your advice to your self..........I am sick of bashers!!!

This is not a thesis I'm writing it's a thread it's ok to misspell a word little buddy! It will happen to all including professionals. Your advice has been taken.

jeeezzzz what a whiny self centered child!!! ...how many times did you bring up your "bashing" back in your thread alone??? ...and now you're crying about it today too.

I gave you good advice that YOU need far worse then anyone I've seen here yet. I also gave that advice in about as polite a manner as possible.

That's not "bashing" bro... that's the simple facts of life!

Just because you are an incoherent self-centered little juvenile with an immense chip on your flaccid little shoulders, doesn't mean my criticism was intended to harm the frail shell of your unbalanced emotional deficit.

Please don't tax your undeveloped intellect, or cripple your excessively weak character by carrying your little grudge to the point of exhaustion.

It must suck to be so ignorant of your shortcomings that your justifiably inferior self image, is still a delusion of grandeur compared to the meek & pale reality of your mediocre endowment.

(...ok, I'll admit that was a bashing!)

 

[mladams7259]

Let me know the next time you need a heart transplant.... I got a pair of scrubs and a stethescope, AND I only charge 500 bucks.:Big Laugh

That was hilarious!

Skyhigh, youve got dibs on the heart transplant but if he needs any other medical procedures Ive got dibs on them!! LOL!!

This guy has some major issues that he needs to work out with his therapist. Of course his therapist is probably not a "therapist". Its probably just some random guy/gal who has him come over to his house and gives him advice because he was cheaper than the guy down the road with the eight years of medical school and a degree...

 

[Sibole]

Hi Again

Well, I only came on here looking for advice, and now your bashing or arguing with each other. I just wanted advice on a machine to help my husband and maybe start a business with in the future, if it goes that way. Telling people they need thearpists and are ignorant is quite rude, and I don't understand it. You tell the person he's being childish for being upset about you telling him he spelled wrong. Well, your all being childish. I'm probably the youngest person here, and yet I feel the most mature. Yes, it bothered me that you all tell me not to start a business, well I'm not, not right away anyway. And who said I'd charge cheap if I did? Who says I won't know what I'm doing? That's why practice makes perfect. My husband already ordered me a Graphtec, thanks to some good advice from much more mature people. I honestly wonder why you all come to this forum? Just to bash each other? I go to another forum where there is actual advice and help, without name calling and arguing, and rude people. I do appreciate your comments, whether they be negative or not, but I think I may not ask for help here if your all just going to argue with each other. I have a Graphtec on it's way, and we'll just see how I do. If I do well, I will let you all know. And if I never start a business with it, I'll be fine with that too. Thank you to everyone who responded.

 

[Replicator]

Slow Down !

Well, I only came on here looking for advice, and now your bashing or arguing with each other.

Sibole - You need to take these guys with a grain of salt, they all mean well,

even the old farts, rubbernecks and bottle feeders . . .

But seriously these guys all mean well, they've just got too much time on their

hands, and take out their frustrations here - so don't let it get to you . . . !


:signs101:

 

[signage]

Good choice on the Graphtec. Did you get any graphics program with it? If not look into Corel Graphtecs come with a plug-in to work with corel.

 

[Sibole]

Thanks

Thank you Brain, I heard the Graphtec was one of the better machines, so I decided on that. I bought the Graphtec, it's coming with LXI Master software, and a bunch of clipart, some other software for pricing and making a website, some vinyl and other things too. But I was thinking about buying Corel X3. I have a free trial of it right now and have been playing with that for awhile. I have heard to cut with Corel you'll need Cocut. Is that true?

 

[signage]

No Graphtec has a plug-in called quick cut, I'm not sure if it is compatible with X3. Did you get the Graphtec or there house machine? There is a difference between the two!

 

[Sibole]

Graphtec

I ordered a Graphtec CE5000-60, the 24". What is the house machine?