Is it alright to.............................

[Gino]

........ use a logo if it appears on-line and says you may use it for basically anything, besides 'Fair Use' ??

We have a customer who wants several logos on their sign and when the companies with nationwide name recognition were contacted, they just said download them from this site.... it was total vector artwork. However, no one is giving us written permission. They said it was totally unnecessary.

One is Dollar General and the other one is Rite Aid. There are some others, but I don't care about them, as they are local businesses and don't have the same rules, besides, they answer to no one, but themselves.

Gino​

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Did they say this on the phone or in an email?
If in email...there's your written permission. If on phone, get them to email you the link and state that it is permissible.

 

[bannertime]

Google says:

fair use noun

• (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder.

So as long as you aren't doing any of the above, you should be fine. Just in case we run into issues, we keep a txt file of the urls we downloaded logos from and keep them in that company file.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Google says:

fair use noun

• (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder.

So as long as you aren't doing any of the above, you should be fine. Just in case we run into issues, we keep a txt file of the urls we downloaded logos from and keep them in that company file.

You've got it exactly backwards. If you are doing any of those things, then fair use comes into play. If you or you client are using the intellectual property for advertising or any commercial gain, then you need permission.

 

[bannertime]

You'd be correct but,

........ use a logo if it appears on-line and says you may use it for basically anything, besides 'Fair Use' ??

unless I'm reading that wrong; it says any use but Fair Use.

 

[Fred Weiss]

You're correct, you are reading it wrong. So let's examine it up close.

You quoted:

Google says:

fair use noun

• (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder.

First off, your quote applied to fair use of copyrighted material and doesn't directly address trademarks or intellectual property in general but for our purposes, we'll not concern ourselves with that ... even though the original question was mostly about logos.

The following are the instances with examples where the fair use exceptions makes it OK to to use protected intellectual property without permission and without breaking the law or infringing on the IP owner's rights:

Criticism

A movie critic is exempt from any claim of copyright infringement when he or she reviews a movie using its name, naming the actors etc., or showing excerpts from the production. Opinions as to how good or bad it is are perfectly OK also. It would not be legal for anyone to acquire a DVD of a movie and have a showing of it in their home which included an admission charge. It would also be illegal for any of us to produce a sign which included the name of the movie being shown.

News Reporting

A TV news show can report a story about Volkswagen using devices to make them seem cleaner running naming the brand, models and showing a picture of them without fear of copyright or trademark infringement. You and I are forbidden from taking a photo of a Volkswagen and selling it for profit or in printing an image of a Volkswagen on a sign without first obtaining permission to do so.

Teaching

A teacher of advertising and marketing might use a Chevrolet Bowtie logo as an example of branding including a picture of the logo and the name of the mark owner(s). Perfectly OK under fair use. You or any of us may not legally put the logo on any work we do without first obtaining permission.

Research

Consumer Reports is perfectly free to research and compare any particular item or items they choose to look into including naming and displaying pictures of copyrighted items under fair use exemptions. We do not get that exemption as commercial sign makers or printers.

 

[bannertime]

I feel like you're still missing the point. If Fair Use doesn't technically relate to IP and marks, then OP really has nothing to worry about. The statement I quoted, if expanded upon on a legitimate brand website, releases him from all copyright worries. Except for maybe slander.

What you're saying is not wrong at all. I'm not disagreeing with you. There are plenty of opinions that state whether Fair Use is a legitimate claim in advertising, but that's not what we're talking about. All the statement says is he can't use it for Fair Use reasons. Not reading into it anymore or less than what it states.

 

[rjssigns]

I'm dealing with this now. Business owner said, "We sell their product so it will be okay to use their logo.". Umm...nope. I told the powers that be, without express, written consent from all parties involved I'm not touching the job. Haven't heard from them in weeks, which is probably their way of firing me. So much the better. At this stage in my career I do nothing on a whim or okey-dokey. It is nailed down in a contract or I move on.

 

[bob]

Google says:

fair use noun

• (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder.

So as long as you aren't doing any of the above, you should be fine. Just in case we run into issues, we keep a txt file of the urls we downloaded logos from and keep them in that company file.

Really? A legal opinion from someone's dictionary?

 

[rossmosh]

This has to be the most boring conversation in the sign world. If you can't use google, common sense, and a general sense of right and wrong to figure it out, then I either question your IQ or your morality.

 

[signbrad]

Both Dollar General and Rite Aid Pharmacy are retail stores, right?
Why would a customer want a sign with the logos of these stores on it?

I have seen this requested on event signage, such as golf tournament signs, where it is common practice to display the logos of the event sponsors. I have never heard of an event sponsor prohibiting the use of their logo on event sign work. Isn't the purpose of being a sponsor to generate publicity for the sponsor?
If in the unlikely event that a sponsor decided their logo should not be used, they would simply request that it not be used. If it is already being displayed, they would request that it be removed. This would seem silly and counterproductive, but I suppose a company could disallow the use of their logo on an event that they are sponsoring. In my experience, however, it's more common to hear a company complain that their logo is not prominent enough.

..................

On the subject of fair use, no trademark owner (or copyright owner) has the right to prohibit fair use. Fair use, by definition, is not infringement.

..................

Trademark infringement is not a crime in the same sense as, say, theft or murder. If a company owns a trademark, it can be a valuable asset and they want to protect it. They will try to prevent infringement if they can, and stop it when it occurs. By far the commonest approach to an infringement is to contact the infringer and demand that the infringement stop. A lawsuit is not usually the first resort. Why use lawyers, who charge hundreds of dollars per hour, to litigate when the infringer can be sent a cease-and-desist letter that may cost less than a hundred? The goal is to stop the infringement without resorting to expensive litigation.

A thief, on the other hand, needs to be caught and brought to justice, and hopefully, be forced to make restitution. And a murderer is a threat to society and must answer for his crime. The idea of sending a cease-and-desist letter to a thief or a killer is obviously ludicrous.


Brad in Kansas City

 

[SignosaurusRex]

This has to be the most boring conversation in the sign world. If you can't use google, common sense, and a general sense of right and wrong to figure it out, then I either question your IQ or your morality.

Well then oh bright one ...can you explain why these cats ALL have 'Intellectual Property Attorneys' maintained on a 'retainer'?

 

[Gino]

This has to be the most boring conversation in the sign world. If you can't use google, common sense, and a general sense of right and wrong to figure it out, then I either question your IQ or your morality.

Then, kindly don't participate. That seems easy enough.

As for who would use it....... it's for some large pylon signs. The owner is refurbishing the entire look and when I asked for the logos, they said to get them online. We're not an authorized company to use these various corporate logos willie-nillie. So, I'm asking here, what others might do. Only asking, not trying to start a fight.

 

[rossmosh]

Well then oh bright one ...can you explain why these cats ALL have 'Intellectual Property Attorneys' maintained on a 'retainer'?

Because they need them to protect their company from the idiots and the morally corrupt.

Then, kindly don't participate. That seems easy enough.

As for who would use it....... it's for some large pylon signs. The owner is refurbishing the entire look and when I asked for the logos, they said to get them online. We're not an authorized company to use these various corporate logos willie-nillie. So, I'm asking here, what others might do. Only asking, not trying to start a fight.

Your post seems purposely vague for an unknown reason. If someone else posted this exact thread, imagine your response.

 

[Gino]

Your post seems purposely vague for an unknown reason. If someone else posted this exact thread, imagine your response.

What more do you want/need ??

 

[rossmosh]

What's the purpose of the sign? Why do they want a sign with a bunch of "random" logos?

Again, if someone else made this exact same post you'd jump all over them for not posting any details.

 

[Gino]

What's the purpose of the sign? Why do they want a sign with a bunch of "random" logos?

Again, if someone else made this exact same post you'd jump all over them for not posting any details.

As mentioned, it's a pylon sign. What else would you like to know ?? I had no idea this was too vague. Most of the others caught on.......guess it's just a long night for ya.....

 

[visual800]

As mentioned, it's a pylon sign. What else would you like to know ?? I had no idea this was too vague. Most of the others caught on.......guess it's just a long night for ya.....

Your original post did not mention a pylon sign. I was siting here thing this was a banner or something. So now Im wondering what the hell your talking about. Putting Rite aid on a pylon sign for what reason? are they occupying the center? Is the owner trying to lure them in? Im lost now, can you please clarify

 

[GaSouthpaw]

In refurbishing (or providing new) signs of this type, we'd either insist that landlord (or person paying for the sign) provide vector art of said logos, as well as colors or that they provide us with a name and contact info of someone at the tenant's corporate office who could provide those things.
With the corporate office supplying us the information (via email, these days), we consider that written permission- as we explain to them in the initial contact the whys and what-fors in regards to our request, which is also done via email.

 

[Gino]

In refurbishing (or providing new) signs of this type, we'd either insist that landlord (or person paying for the sign) provide vector art of said logos, as well as colors or that they provide us with a name and contact info of someone at the tenant's corporate office who could provide those things.
With the corporate office supplying us the information (via email, these days), we consider that written permission- as we explain to them in the initial contact the whys and what-fors in regards to our request, which is also done via email.

That's kinda what we did. Their comeback was, go onine and download the images you need. I told them to have their tenants contact me directly with all the information, but got very lititle help in that department. It seems no one wants to lift a finger to do it the right way. One guy said to me, this is too complicated. Excuse me ?? Giving your tenants my information is too difficult ?? How else do we get started ??

Anyway, I see by some of the help/comments..... this question has been a little too difficult for some of you. Thank you all for your time.

Should anyone want to contribute, please feel free.

Gino​