Issues with Avery MPI1105

[bob]

Upon advice of counsel I bought a roll of Avery MPI1105 Super Cast Easy Apply. I loaded in my printer, Mutoh 1204, and attempted to print an image I've printed many times on Oracal 3751RA. This time the areas of black printed as a badly banded medium charcoal gray. OK says I, I changed the black to a 30,30,30,100 mix and tried again. The result was a slightly darker charcoal gray with less but still unacceptable banding. Desperate now, I converted the image to an RGB bitmap. This time the black printed reasonable well. Not perfect but acceptable. But some areas of a medium blue had random areas of light blotch pattern.

Still, being desperate, I decided that it was something that only I would ever see so I coated the print with Clear Shield. I checked back a few hours later and the Clear Shield did not level out and left a mild stipple instead of a smooth coat. I've been using Clear Shield for lo these many years and this has never, as in ever, happened on any other media.

Just to be sure I printed the original image, the first one I tried, on Oracal 3651 and it came out perfect. Go figure.

I've been in a flurry of email communication with the local Avery rep, they're still contemplating my problems even as I type. I get a lot of the standard 'No one has reported this sort of thing..." etc. My lack of interest in what someone else has not reported approaches total. I have a problem, fix it.

There doesn't seem to exist a specific profile for this media for this printer. Even the Avery folk admit this. Nonetheless the profile I used and have been using for many years works flawlessly on any and all other media I've ever printed.

Does anyone in these waters have any insight on this particular media?

 

[Gino]

I generally don't fix something, if it's not broken, so whomever talked you into changing brands, I'd be telling them to replace the media with what you are used to and however much credit you want for ink and time wasted on THEIR recommendation.

They'll deny labor and tell ya to read thew fine print, so just tell them..... this was their frickin' idea, so pay up and be fast about it, or you will go over their heads.

 

[Dennis422]

I print on MPI1105RSEZ since it came out as a replacement for 1005.
No issues on HP L330.
I'm always printing black with 100% black in the file. Never made it a rich black and it always comes out nice and dark. Never as a gray. I'm printing from Flexi (HP Edition)

Good luck

 

[P Wagner]

Can the OP post a picture of the output?

 

[FatCat]

Bob, I believe you print with a Mutoh 1204, correct?

My first guess is that you might have a bad or contaminated roll. It happens, not very frequently, but it does happen - the blotchiness you describe is what makes me think so. However, to be sure, what RIP are you using and what profile? If using Flexi, I would suggest trying the Oracal 3651 profile - which one of my good friends in the industry swears by. He prints virtually everything on it.

We too are having issues with the 1105 - but not the same as you. Our problem is the new material will only take about 75% of the ink the old 1005 would. So we've been battling drying issues - and of course, when I talk to Avery about it, they are firm in saying nobody in the entire world is having this problem but us.....

So, I feel your pain, but I would suggest switching profiles first, and see if that doesn't change it.

 

[Johnny Best]

I have a Mutoh 1204 myself and had problems with Avery as well in the past. "Don't change horses in the middle of the stream". Just use Oracal as I learned to do through with trail and error. Go back to what works for you. How is your nozzle check, Are all colors firing good.
Are you using OEM ink or something else. I never like Flexi as a RIP and switched to Shiraz years ago which gave better blacks.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Sounds like you got a bad roll, I don't know why they are wasting time and not swapping it out already.

 

[tbullo]

This was a print from our first use of 1105. Our rep. Sent us a new roll and it was fine. They took that print but never said what could have been the issue. We also got the ( we never heard of that happening) thing to. It was nice to install but we have returned to the 3M just because we never had a print issue with it. Print was on a Seiko W-64.

 

[bob]

To answer all of the questions asked above:

Using Flexi Production manager, as I have been for many years.

Head check is just fine.

OEM inks.

Using an Oracal 3651G profile diddled a bit with higher dither and gradient algorithms. Rendering intents are 'No Color Correction' for everything except bitmaps which are set to 'Perpetual'. Like Flexi, I've been using this profile for many many years and never a problem.

As to a contaminated roll and not changing horses, I went with this product because I had three rolls of Oracal 3751RA in a row that were indeed contaminated. If this Avery product is also contaminated then I can only wonder what I might have done to anger the various gods that deal with such matters.

The Avery rep reached into his hat and just now sent me a profile for this media on a Mutoh 1204. I'm going to give it a test drive tomorrow AM. I seriously doubt that it will fix my problem but in the spirit of fair play I'll give it a go. The Clear Shield problem remains, as yet, unaddressed.

Thanks everyone. If any one has any further thought I'm all ears.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Post some pictures of the problem, Bobby.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

My first thought is as others have mentioned, if the Oracal profile and media work- stick with it. Just know that if you absolutely have to use the Avery, you're going to have to tweak your settings.
I checked the Flexi website for profiles and unfortunately, they don't even list your printer specifically (it may fall under the ValueJet generic ones, I guess). Kind of lame that the Avery folks claimed they couldn't give you a profile, considering they want you to use their material. Then again, canned profiles aren't universal. They're created in carefully controlled conditions. When they work, they're great. When they don't, you can tweak them through trial and error (and plenty of wasted time and materials)- or use the equipment to do it correctly.
I've done the tweaking both ways- I can't emphasize enough how preferable it is to use the right equipment. The time and stress you'll save make the initial investment worth it- and seem to recall that Flexi makes doing your own profiles easy, if you have a spectrophotometer. Otherwise, it's a P.I.T.A. and all you can do is test, tweak, test, tweak, etc.

As far as the rolls being contaminated, wouldn't surprise me. It happens- even to the occasional 3M roll- and more often to Arlon (crap), Avery (again, not a fan), and Oracal (my choice if we weren't almost exclusively 3M users). Most reputable distributors will replace the defective ones quickly and with little to no fuss.

 

[bob]

Mystery solved or at least deferred. Fellers, for the second time in a week, sent the wrong media. They sent a roll of MPI 1005 instead of MPI 1105. The only way I could tell was looking up the end of the roll with a flashlight, Go figure,Totally different vinyl according to the Avery guy. They're sending a replacement roll of MPI 1105 as I type.If they can manage this no doubt difficult feat. I'll give it a go when it arrives about next Tuesday and see what happens. I have to admit the stuff cuts, weeds, and applies like a dream, if only I can print on it. When I first removed the backing the adhesive seemed so anemic that I had serious doubts that it would stick to anything and probably come back up when any mask was removed. Hah. I muckles on to whatever substrate and stays right there. Other than as yet unresolved printing issues, it's nice stuff.

 

[hcardwell93]

I feel like the 1105behaves much better on a wrap than 3M 180CV3. I've been working on an HHR this week and the Avery has laid down fantastically.

 

[Baz]

Just went to look up Avery's specs on 1105 easy RS. Good thing to ... I need to put in a large order of the stuff next week.

Found this out:
Important Note: MPI 1105 Easy Apply RS™ is only recommended for use with DOL 6460 High Gloss overlaminate.
It is not compatible with the following cast laminates; DOL 1060, DOL 1080, DOL 1360, DOL 1380, DOL 1460 and DOL 1480

I used to pair it with either 1060 or 1360 like i did when using MPI 1005. I did not get any comebacks but will order the recommended pairing next week for sure.

 

[sardocs]

We use the Avery 1005 quite often without any major issues. It usually installs flawlessly on all kinds of applications. The only problems I've encountered are when I use Clearshield instead of the laminate film. It's fine as long as I don't use transfer tape but it will come of in blotchy patches if transfer tape is put on top of the Clearshield. It only happens with the glossy high performance film, and not with the matte calendared Avery we stock.

 

[Bly]

Just went to look up Avery's specs on 1105 easy RS. Good thing to ... I need to put in a large order of the stuff next week.

Found this out:
Important Note: MPI 1105 Easy Apply RS™ is only recommended for use with DOL 6460 High Gloss overlaminate.
It is not compatible with the following cast laminates; DOL 1060, DOL 1080, DOL 1360, DOL 1380, DOL 1460 and DOL 1480

I used to pair it with either 1060 or 1360 like i did when using MPI 1005. I did not get any comebacks but will order the recommended pairing next week for sure.

We use 6460 but you they have new compatible lams with a Z suffix - eg 1460z
They've just extended the warranty with 6460 so here we get 3 years on horizontal surfaces.
If you count Avery warranty as having any value..

It prints and installs great, we've used a few rolls.

 

[Vital Designs]

Just went to look up Avery's specs on 1105 easy RS. Good thing to ... I need to put in a large order of the stuff next week.

Found this out:
Important Note: MPI 1105 Easy Apply RS™ is only recommended for use with DOL 6460 High Gloss overlaminate.
It is not compatible with the following cast laminates; DOL 1060, DOL 1080, DOL 1360, DOL 1380, DOL 1460 and DOL 1480

I used to pair it with either 1060 or 1360 like i did when using MPI 1005. I did not get any comebacks but will order the recommended pairing next week for sure.

I use 1105 EZRS all the time and they sell it in kits combined with DOL1360Z

 

[d fleming]

Wouldn't wipe the dogs behind with an avery product.

 

[Fine Designs]

This was a print from our first use of 1105. Our rep. Sent us a new roll and it was fine. They took that print but never said what could have been the issue. We also got the ( we never heard of that happening) thing to. It was nice to install but we have returned to the 3M just because we never had a print issue with it. Print was on a Seiko W-64.

What profile and rip system?

 

[tbullo]

What profile and rip system?

Using Oynx 12, I think the profile was in Oynx.