Laminating Flat Bed Prints

[gfxsigns]

Hello, we are looking at purchasing an HP flat bed and was curious what peoples experience is with laminating the prints? I believe the machine does a 3 year outdoor warranty-however I am curious what people do if a client requests anti graffiti or wants a 5 year...do you go back to the print on vinyl and laminate, or can you skin the flat bed print in say DOL 6060 or perhaps look at a roll on liquid laminate? let me know your thoughts and chat soon-thank you

 

[Gino]

Hello, we are looking at purchasing an HP flat bed and was curious what peoples experience is with laminating the prints? I believe the machine does a 3 year outdoor warranty-however I am curious what people do if a client requests anti graffiti or wants a 5 year...do you go back to the print on vinyl and laminate, or can you skin the flat bed print in say DOL 6060 or perhaps look at a roll on liquid laminate? let me know your thoughts and chat soon-thank you

I'm sure the manufacturers won't agree with me, but why would you want to print onto something, full well knowing it's a 3 year product and expect some marvelous clear laminate to give you almost double the time-frame ??

If it's 3 year product, then offer 3 years and stop hoping to somehow double it with a product that is only meant to stretch your time a little. It's primary job is to protect it form vandalism, cleaners, tree branches and other marring situations, while giving some extra UV protection.

Here is the Avery warranty in full :
​

Warranty:

All statements, technical information and
recommendations about Avery Dennison
products are based upon tests believed to be
reliable but do not constitute a guarantee or
warranty. All Avery Dennison products are sold
with the understanding that Purchaser has
independently determined the suitability of such
products for its purposes. Avery Dennison
products are warranted to be free from defects in
material and workmanship for either one year (or
the period stated on the specific product
information literature in effect at time of delivery, if

longer) from date of shipment if said product is
properly stored and applied. It is expressly agreed
and understood that Avery Dennison's sole
obligation and Purchaser's exclusive remedy
under this warranty, under any other warranty,
express or implied, or otherwise, shall be limited
to repair or replacement of defective product
without charge at Avery Dennison's plant or at the
location of product (at Avery Dennison's election),
or in the event replacement or repairs is not
commercially practical, to Avery Dennison's
issuing Purchaser a credit reasonable in light of
the defect in the product.

 

[J Hill Designs]

yes but...gino what do you do if someone asks for vandal protection (anti grafitti lam) -

do you

a) revert to printed vinyl with AGL
b) apply AGL to flatbed printed substrates
c) liquid lam AGL

I believe that was the question. not 'what is avery's waranty'

 

[Gino]

Hello, we are looking at purchasing an HP flat bed and was curious what peoples experience is with laminating the prints? I believe the machine does a 3 year outdoor warranty-however I am curious what people do if a client requests anti graffiti or wants a 5 year...do you go back to the print on vinyl and laminate, or can you skin the flat bed print in say DOL 6060 or perhaps look at a roll on liquid laminate? let me know your thoughts and chat soon-thank you

I took this to mean, she wants to extend the life of a flatbed print to maybe a 5 year product, by using an Avery product [6060], hence the reason for showing their warranty, which is pretty much the same across the board for all manufacturers.

yes but...gino what do you do if someone asks for vandal protection (anti grafitti lam) -

do you

a) revert to printed vinyl with AGL
b) apply AGL to flatbed printed substrates
c) liquid lam AGL

I believe that was the question. not 'what is avery's waranty'

As for the various possibilities of obtaining the end result, I was merely saying not to use a known 3 year product and expect the customer to rely on a laminate, liquid or rigid, to get the remaining years and use that as your scapegoat for making inferior 5 or 6 year products. The manufacture probably won't stand behind it. It's not worth your reputation as a reputable sign shop to do such shoddy work. If the OP is starting out or testing their feet in the flatbed world, don't start on the wrong foot by taking known short cuts that don't/won't work.

So, while yes you can do all those things J Hill, primarily, just not from a flatbed.
​

 

[J Hill Designs]

so, then, A is what you do?

 

[Gino]

so, then, A is what you do?

Well......... yes, BUT not printed vinyl on the flatbed. Printed vinyl on our Roland which is close to a 5 year without lamination to begin with.

The OP's question seemed to pertain to flatbed printing only. It seems as though they are contemplating a flatbed and no matter what you print to, it's a 3 maybe 4 year product, according to the substrate, interior/exterior and position of sign concerning sun duration from particular directions.

 

[J Hill Designs]

gotcha

 

[Nishan]

Durst P10

I am also looking foward to some thoughts on this. We have been printing on the Durst P10 250 flatbed for almost a year now and what we encountered is as follows.
1. UV inks finish by default a matt/satin finish. So if end product is acceptable as a matt finish we just supply as is.
2. If gloss is required, then we apply a vinyl gloss lam, with heat assist to cover over the uv ink. We have noticed that on some overlams the glue does not stick very well to the uv inks, especially on the edges.
3. We tried all possible liquid lams out there, and to get a good gloss look ... it takes two coats of hand roller brush.
4. Best solution what we are now investing and setting up is a UV cured liquid lam. There are some 100k usd seal uv liquid lam machines, but have opted to silkscreen the uv lam, and then send that thru a uv curing tunnel.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nishan]

http://www.marabu-inks.com/products...pplication/applicationsforliquidcoatings.html

 

[HulkSmash]

Hello, we are looking at purchasing an HP flat bed and was curious what peoples experience is with laminating the prints? I believe the machine does a 3 year outdoor warranty-however I am curious what people do if a client requests anti graffiti or wants a 5 year...do you go back to the print on vinyl and laminate, or can you skin the flat bed print in say DOL 6060 or perhaps look at a roll on liquid laminate? let me know your thoughts and chat soon-thank you

We've flatbed printed, and have outsourced to a spray shop to spray automotive clear on it. They come out Fantastic.

 

[Gino]

We've flatbed printed, and have outsourced to a spray shop to spray automotive clear on it. They come out Fantastic.

This would probably be the best way to get a better long lasting panel, provided the end user is gonna wait and pay the extra cost for something like that. For the body shop to paint one like that, we always have to wait til they're going to gang it in with something else, or it costs us out the wazoo and the customer generally doesn't have any extra Preparation 'H' for such matters.

Again, while this is a good method, they [the OP] might not have access to a body shop or a big enough order to warrant such a service, and is why they asked about rigid vs liquid lam rolled on. Very seldom have we had our body shop man clear for us, due to his high prices. If ya don't want runs or orange peel, you have to pay the piper his fees.

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

This would probably be the best way to get a better long lasting panel, provided the end user is gonna wait and pay the extra cost for something like that. For the body shop to paint one like that, we always have to wait til they're going to gang it in with something else, or it costs us out the wazoo and the customer generally doesn't have any extra Preparation 'H' for such matters.

Again, while this is a good method, they [the OP] might not have access to a body shop or a big enough order to warrant such a service, and is why they asked about rigid vs liquid lam rolled on. Very seldom have we had our body shop man clear for us, due to his high prices. If ya don't want runs or orange peel, you have to pay the piper his fees.

Any body shop should be clearing every day, Cars are two stage paint, base coat/Clear coat. But if you want to find the best prices, find a body guy that does it out of his house/shop or on the side at your own shop, They don't need a paint booth to clear some signs. But I don't think that clear-coat is really much better than a laminate on top of a flatbed direct print.

 

[Nishan]

Not sure about the general workflow out there, we print a lot of 2, 3 and 4mm sheets abs. 1.2m x 2.5m. We print the sheet then liquid lam the whole sheet, then we router, or panel saw after that with absolutely no ink or lam chipping on the edges. Will the clear coat spray also hold just as well ?

 

[DoubleDown]

for laminating UV prints, either liquid lam or roll lam will work great. For film laminate, use Mactac's Colorguard Calendared...specifically formulated to stick to uv inks, just make sure to use a tiny bit of heat and more pressure to keep any silvering around edges to happen.

for liquid laminates, Clearshield which is Maribu now are perfect, just call them up and give them your scenario.

For making sure UV inks stick to your materials, do your research on Bond Aid I and Bond Aid II, read carefully and use correctly and you will be very happy.

 

[rubo]

No need to laminate - liquid or not. Reverse print on clear acrylic, spray white on print, add backing to your taste.

 

[DoubleDown]

if you are printing second surface acrylic with a flatbed, prime first, print to acrylic, let sit for 24hrs and then roll white paint or simply laminate white vinyl to backside at 80 pressure, always turns out perfect JUST make sure your ink is adhering to the plastic.

 

[artbot]

for white paint, this is the stuff.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...pro-industrial-precatalyzed-waterbased-epoxy/