Logo rights

[btropical.com]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BT-4-Omega-Pain...723?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b774194b

 

[binki]

What did your contract say? From your description it sounds like it was work for hire so he would own the design, not you. If you just sold him printing services then you might own it.

There is a difference between the image or mark (sounds like a trademark) and the media for reproduction.

I think you should let it go. 10 years would be beyond the statute of limitations of a contract anyway.

 

[iSign]

Why do people without a frikkin clue, or the time to read for comprehension, always have the time to rattle off the full extent of legal wisdom they have gathered over the years without clue or comprehension??

John, you have clearly handled your business correctly, and will continue to be doing so when you approach the deadbeat! (& not so much when you get that eBay solution handled, but we wants pics of that lol )

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Why do people without a frikkin clue, or the time to read for comprehension, always have the time to rattle off the full extent of legal wisdom they have gathered over the years without clue or comprehension??

That is the risk that is run when posting in a forum that doesn't have a legal practitioner in it(as far as I know anyway).

I'm lucky, I just go to dad(tax and contract lawyer for over 30 yrs) for all my legal questions.

 

[Jillbeans]

Had a VERY similar situation here.
Did a logo-ized layout for truck lettering.
Did it on a few corosigns and other stuff.
Customer knew he did not own it, and my contracts all say it's not owned by the client unless purchased from me.
Customer calls, wants the artwork for a billboard. I told him the price
(a good discount too as he is a regular but always a pain to deal with)
He simply had the other company take a picture of the truck I did and then they did a horrendous mock-up of my layout.
He laughed about it when I asked him about it the next time he came for truck lettering.
The billboard was really bad, especially since they gave him everything I never give him (which was everything but the kitchen sink and illegible)
I told him I could make him up a CD of all his files for $250 which he said go ahead.
That particular day he had ordered more sign lettering, given a deposit, and when I emailed him the heavily watermarked layout he asked if I could send it to him again "without your logo all over it" so he could use it on his website.
I said yes, for a fee.
So he knew he did not own the rights.
He never picked up the CD even tho I called and emailed and said it was ready.
He had more ads made with the hideous billboard layout which was a total bastardization of my work.
So the next year when he needed truck lettering I brought the CD with me and sold it to him for $150.
So he now owns the original stuff. No problem.
But in the inbetweentime he had his secretary's son copy the bad billboard layout into their now "logo" which was even worse than the first stuff.
And he wanted me to put it on his new trucks.
Which after an hour or two of d!cking around I got it somewhat usable and put it on two of his trucks.
So now he wants THOSE files just emailed over to him.
Again I said, for a fee.
Haven't heard back from him.

Burn your files onto a CD.
Go to the guy with CD in hand.
Explain to him that what he did was illegal.
Tell him if he buys the CD now for X amount you will not take him to small claims court.
Love.....Jill

 

[Williams Signs]

Why do people without a frikkin clue, or the time to read for comprehension, always have the time to rattle off the full extent of legal wisdom they have gathered over the years without clue or comprehension??

John, you have clearly handled your business correctly, and will continue to be doing so when you approach the deadbeat! (& not so much when you get that eBay solution handled, but we wants pics of that lol )

I hope this was not directed toward me. I live in the same state as John and was simple stating what I had to do last year with one of my designs. I was able to get payed for my design time for window layout, I was able to make them take the layout off the window and also make the company that done the work pay me for what I was out by not doing the job. This was knowledge gained from going through this. If not directed toward me sorry for misunderstanding your post......

 

[binki]

Why do people ...always have the time to rattle off the full extent of legal wisdom ...

because we have an attorney in the family. if you want to enforce your rights you have to affirm them first. otherwise it is a waste of time.

 

[iSign]

I hope this was not directed toward me.

nope... not at all... just ranting about John writing "today" and everyone (not you) thinking "10 years ago"

...ten years have passed and you haven't done anything....

...a lot of time has passed though too...

Has the sign with the unauthorized logo been up for nearly ten years, or was it just recently put up? Seems like it might make a difference...

I think you should let it go. 10 years would be beyond the statute of limitations of a contract anyway.

I did some business cards for a guy here about ten years ago....

...Fast forward to today. Drove by his shop, up on the front was a new sign with the logo bigger than life on it.

if you want to enforce your rights you have to affirm them first. otherwise it is a waste of time.

if you want your reply to a post to make sense, sometimes you have to read the post first, otherwise it could be a waste of time...

not picking on any one post... just seemed people weren't reading... ain't got no lawyers in my family, but it is commonly said that artists automatically own copyrights to their own artwork, unless they signed it over..

allegedly, the artist doesn't need the contract to retain copyrights, (although it's good to keep the peace with the client & ensure that he knows the rules) it's the client who needs to get the contract to have copyrights transferred to him... maybe that contract is subject to a statute of limitations... but I've never heard of artists rights to their own creations being lost to the passage of time.. or even death... but of course i ain't a lawyer either

 

[JR's]

Since he was asked if he wanted to buy the design, and did not. He is aware
that it does not belong to him. Give him a call, or send him a bill, or both.
I would not bother with a lawyer, but I'd make him aware that if he uses the
design for anything else, he could be facing litigation.

 

[Mosh]

Good luck, he paid for the lettering, and it is HIS name so it is his to use. I have been in court like I said so....
Simple Take them to court and let us all know what happens. END OF STORY!!!!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

allegedly, the artist doesn't need the contract to retain copyrights, (although it's good to keep the peace with the client & ensure that he knows the rules) it's the client who needs to get the contract to have copyrights transferred to him... maybe that contract is subject to a statute of limitations... but I've never heard of artists rights to their own creations being lost to the passage of time.. or even death... but of course i ain't a lawyer either

It all depends on jurisdiction that you are in. I have seen some funky laws that have to do with the passage of time. One in this jurisdiction that I know isn't in all jurisdictions is that if you and your neighbor accept a fence as a boundary, but it doesn't follow the original survey ones, after 8 yrs that fence line will actually be considered your new boundary.

Now both people on either side of the fence have to accept that fence line as a boundary and continue to do so for 8 yrs, but after that elapsed time, it becomes the official boundary.

Now the one that would be the nearest translation to something that would affect people here(I am not saying that this is the situation of this very thread mind you) would be if you saw someone that had a sign put up using your designs, but didn't buy them from you and you knew about it, but waited so many years to seek damages. I would think(but this is just me thinking here) that would be a harder pill for a judge (or arbiter if you go to ADR) to swallow.

 

[Mosh]

WildWest, you are talking about squatter's rights. I had some hunters that leased the ground next to me and the put a trailer on MY property and claimed squater's rights. Well the next time the came down they were squatting out in the snow cause I took my four wheel drive tractor and pushed that trailer back on their side of the fence, but sorry to say not in one peice. they called the law, but nothing ever come of it. Now every time I see them down there hunting I blow the air horns in my truck to make sure no ducks or geese come in.

Like I say said take them to court, you will be wasting your time and $. GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE!!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

WildWest, you are talking about squatter's rights. I had some hunters that leased the ground next to me and the put a trailer on MY property and claimed squater's rights.

No, it's not squatter's rights. A squatter has no ownership at all of the land. Leased land is not truly ownership of the land. And in my case, it isn't putting their property squarely within the boundaries of your land either.

 

[Mosh]

Either way, these guys from the big City come to hunt, pay lots of money, and I make sure they do not get anything!!! But they claim to have rights, well go back to Omaha is what i tell them!!!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Either way, these guys from the big City come to hunt, pay lots of money, and I make sure they do not get anything!!! But they claim to have rights, well go back to Omaha is what i tell them!!!

Don't be too harsh on the city slickers. 6th generation native of Plano TX.

Back home, we used to be able to uphold our property rights a little more shall we say vigoriously then we can now. It's a shame.

I hate having to carry more insurence in case some dip wad people come onto my land because the horses that I own or board here are attractive nuisance.

 

[chopper]

If you've been trying to sell it to him all this time I'd call him, find out who did the sign, then send the other shop and him an invoice for the artwork.

Pat I understand what you are saying here but how is the other sign shop responsible for any damages? I have heard this before but I do not see how this is enforceable, if some one came to me and asked me to say letter a truck and I ask them if they own the art work and they tell me yes am I going to see a title for said artwork (no)
so if customer gives me the art and I do the lettering by the customer supplying the art give the impression of owner ship.... so I think this would be kinda hard to pull off ....
unless I am missing something...
//chopper

 

[chopper]

You are out of luck. You should have just included it in the first thing you
did for him. I was on the other end, I made a sign for a customer using a design they had on a van. The original sign shop tryed to take them to small claims court for stealing the design, the judge dismissed the case saying they paid for the lettering so
the logo was theirs to use as they wished.

Mosh,
just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it wont work for John, different Judge, different state different out come? maybe your Judge was a buddy of the guy who ripped you off?
seen this happen before, I guess John will have to take him to court to see ....hope that wont be nessary but it would be interesting to see the outcome.
//chopper