Lord Adhesive failure, any advice?

[Notarealsignguy]

I don't really understand why the GB option is not more ready available (at least not from Wensco and Grimco) as that sure would simplify clamping.

ETA: GB stands for glass beads - they're in the adhesive and ensure a sufficient thickness

It might not work well with those mixing nozzles?

 

[jtiii]

Thanks for your help everybody! Put the sign up last night. First time using this mounting system that I learned about on our beloved signs101! SO EASY

 

[jtiii]

It might not work well with those mixing nozzles?

I just googled it - chemical concepts has it in the 50ml size we know and love, and $2 less than the non GB stuff is at Wensco -

 

[Gino]

Sign looks nice.
Hope its a good neighborhood, so it doesn't get all graffitted up.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Sign looks good but what's the craziness behind it? Looks like a farm somewhere is missing their fence.

 

[jtiii]

Sign looks good but what's the craziness behind it? Looks like a farm somewhere is missing their fence.

PLENTY of alupanel scrap laying around + using less aluminum angle.

 

[Gino]

So, those angles are what you fastened to the sign and then the lip ??

I believe using .080 and bending the lip outta the face piece, then screwing into the top along a continuous top and bottom rail would've been a stronger and better appearance. You might get a sag, especially if the glue doesn't hold. The sign only appears to be about 45" x 84"', so you had plenty of room for a lip.

It still looks great with what you did, just a bit scary.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So, those angles are what you fastened to the sign and then the lip ??

I believe using .080 and bending the lip outta the face piece, then screwing into the top along a continuous top and bottom rail would've been a stronger and better appearance. You might get a sag, especially if the glue doesn't hold. The sign only appears to be about 45" x 84"', so you had plenty of room for a lip.

It still looks great with what you did, just a bit scary.

That's how we have done it. Mill finish 080, notch 4 corners, brake each side, weld up corners and hit the welds with a flap wheel. Then wrap the vinyl over the lip all around the pan. Make the back frame out of 1/8" aluminum angle welded together and slide the face over it

 

[jtiii]

I believe using .080 and bending the lip outta the face piece

Don't have a brake though,

weld up corners

or a welder!

You might get a sag, especially if the glue doesn't hold.

I ask this with all humility as I'm new to making my own pans and don't have much metal fab experience in general—what part might sag? As for the glue holding, since the frame angle is held square to the brick and the sign "lip" angle is held square to the frame, the stress on the glue is (mostly) shear instead of peel or cleavage so I figgered I'd be safe. Also some of the folks on here claimed it would work fine so OF COURSE I cherry picked the suggestions that aligned with how I wanted to do it

It still looks great with what you did,

Thanks! I was happy with it.
I don't have a sheet metal shop close by and I'm low volume so I don't see myself adding equipment for these—will definitely revisit if I start selling more of these. I'm certainly going to start trying to upsell anyone wanting a flat wall sign.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Why sand the paint all the way off? That paint will probably adhere better that the adhesive ever will. It stuck to the paint, the problem was on the raw side. You realize that in cars, the windshield urethane goes on the paint and they are integral to passenger safety.

We had some problem with adhesion on paint so the boss man says sand the paint off first. Haven't had a problem since. Don't know the science behind it, just speaking from personal experience.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

We had some problem with adhesion on paint so the boss man says sand the paint off first. Haven't had a problem since. Don't know the science behind it, just speaking from personal experience.

Scuff it yes 100% but don't take it down to bare, especially aluminum (assuming that the aluminum was properly coated to begin with)

 

[a77]

Why not take it down to bare aluminum?

 

[a77]

JBurton and Notarealsignguy...
When talking about these epoxies and aluminum: what are you basing your decision to leave some paint on? Experience, or did you read that somewhere?

We do know that these adhesives hold damn good on bare aluminum though.

 

[Gino]

I was told a long time ago, regardless or what you are gluing up.... if it's aluminum to aluminum, the paint is in the way. That in actuality would be paint to paint. Painted wood to painted wood..... same thing. If something is coated with layers of paint, the only thing you should be putting on it would be more paint, not glue. If you buy glue that says it's good for this, that or whatever, it doesn't mean paint should be in the middle of the equation. Can ya do it ?? Sure, but it's just not as strong a bond.

Maybe things have changed since I was taught that, but it hasn't failed me yet.

 

[netsol]

Jtiii was only a few weeks from expiration date, and, while it should have been fine, the fact that some of the glue was still sticky gives us a good hint that lord's means it when they suggest storage at 40 degrees

I ordered some, to give it a try & will keep it right next to the bottle of gin...

 

[a77]

For gluing something heavy like 1/8" aluminum panels to 12' frames hung overhead, it better be unpainted product in the first place.
For gluing a touch of ACM to a frame sitting 2' off the ground, I think the paint will be just fine to glue to. Not to mention the aluminum is only as thick as the paint, so sanding through one and not the other is easier said than done, and lest we forget, the aluminum is bonded to the rubber/plastic/recycled bottles/whatever makes the ACM core, and it can be delaminated as well.

I have only used signlok 810.
Never seen it have a problem with bare aluminum. Even dirty, uncleaned aluminum, it's rock solid. Would like to hear what LORD would say about the failure.