New XF-640 Banding Issue

[graphicwarning]

Good Morning Everyone!


So, I’ve got a new Roland XF-640. Aside from a few feed calibrations when it was setup, all the test images from the Versaworks RIP appeared to print fine.


Being just over a week old and finally having some time to work with it, I’m now trying to linearize, calibrate and profile it and am encountering banding issues. I have tried everything I can think of to see if there is a setting or adjustment to be made that I am forgetting… nothing seems to change the banding. It’s evident with everything I’ve tried, and everything I have tried appears to have no impact on the banding.


This thing has two print heads… it almost makes me wonder if one of them is not functioning properly. Below is all of the things I have tried and the result. I’m attaching a few photos… not sure if the problem is apparent in the photos or not.


Printers firmware is up to date
Humidity and Temperature are constant in the workspace.


Tried various medias - No change
Changed various profiles - No change
Adjusted feed calibrations (used several settings) - No change
Changed number of passes - Bands get smaller of course, but are still visibly present
Changed resolution - No change
Changed Media width from “sheet” to “full” - No change
Decreased and Increased heater settings to various settings - No change
Decreased and Increased vacuum settings (Strong/Normal) - No change
Created custom profiles including linearization - No change
Tried Uni & Bi Directional both - No change
Changed Bidirectional Calibration (Both Standard and Detailed) - tried various settings - No change
Did a Nozzle Check/Print Test - Everything is correct
Did a Light Choke Cleaning - No change
Did a medium cleaning - No change
Did a manual cleaning - No change
Tried different images/graphics - No change


Being Sunday, my dealer is not available. So I’m looking to see if any of you fine folks have any suggestions? It’s brand new, so I’m not crazy about ripping this thing apart to mess with dampers, cap tops or the like. It’s brand new and under warrantee, I’ll let the dealer take care of that. I’m just curious if I’ve missed something obvious I could try…


Thanks!
Brock

 

[P Wagner]

What I see in the images appears to be more related to 'Chromatic Banding' (aka lawnmower banding) than feed or nozzle induced banding. In that case, I would think that a uni-directional print should not show this type of artifact.

 

[graphicwarning]

What I see in the images appears to be more related to 'Chromatic Banding' (aka lawnmower banding) than feed or nozzle induced banding. In that case, I would think that a uni-directional print should not show this type of artifact.

Unfortunately I tried Uni-directional with multi profiles and medias... identical results.

 

[Andrew O]

Thanks for your purchase. It sounds like you are working with your dealer now that they are open, but if need to, you’re welcome to contact Roland Care Support directly at 800-542-2307. If you opt to call Roland direct, please have the printer serial number available when you call.

 

[graphicwarning]

Thanks for your purchase. It sounds like you are working with your dealer now that they are open, but if need to, you’re welcome to contact Roland Care Support directly at 800-542-2307. If you opt to call Roland direct, please have the printer serial number available when you call.

Thanks Andrew! Yes... my dealer has been excellent helping me out today, working through different items. I do believe he is now working with someone at Roland for a solution, as him and I haven't been able to determine the issue with everything we have tried.

 

[njhomer]

Hi Brock,
I am experiencing the same issue on my XF-640. What did your dealer do to resolve the problem???

Thx,

 

[graphicwarning]

No... As a matter of fact my situation has gotten much worse. I'm really really disappointed with Roland and my dealer at this point. I have serious banding issues at higher speeds (which are still present at slower speeds/higher quality... Just not as noticeable), and I am being told that it is simply bi-directional banding... Which it's not ,as far as I am concerned.

I just received some print samples from them today that they want me to compare the output from my machine vs. Theirs... I just haven't had a chance to open them yet.

Needless to say, my issue... Running over two months now, has still not been resolved.

PM me if you'd like... I'll be happy to share my Roland experience thus far with this issue!

 

[nhuminh]

I have some model of Roland VS-640, XF-640 and usually got that problem when print black, cyan backgound on vinyl or mate flex banner, I change another vinyl or glossy flex banner and it look better or not happen

 

[JoshLoring]

That's all banner material right?
Had this once with canvas and I couldn't figure it out. Then.. I fixed it. Can't promise it will work but try this.
- keep a bit of tension on the media while you print the samples. Mine got banding (on XR-640) with canvas media until we applied tension to media because it was rolling under the heads.

 

[Rocket Designs]

Xr, xr roland

That's all banner material right?
Had this once with canvas and I couldn't figure it out. Then.. I fixed it. Can't promise it will work but try this.
- keep a bit of tension on the media while you print the samples. Mine got banding (on XR-640) with canvas media until we applied tension to media because it was rolling under the heads.

Same me issues here. I have gave up. Constant problems with my xr. Roland helped for a week and disappeared. Very disappointed with their lack of help. This printer has far to many issues. Profiles are another major problem. Also after many heat settings, applying pressure to media and messing with pinch settings I have so many issues with banners. Very frustrating and wasted weeks with this darn thing. Banding, grainyness modeling etc. I have ruined over 100' of material and nearly an entire set of ink on this pile......sad but it's going back and I will have to say no more Roland.

 

[graphicwarning]

I've tried everything with this machine, and Roland and my dealer have been providing assistance (if you can call it that) at a snails pace. I understand they have other clients than just me... but my problem has been going on for a little over 2 months now, with no resolution. I have produced one revenue generating job from this machine... a set of banners, since I received it and they had to be printed on high quality mode to do so.

I cannot get decent results on any media really... and I don't believe I ever will. I am fully aware of bi-directional banding... but this is unbelievable. I cannot print a "solid color" without shifts in color. Forget about calling it "banding"... lets just call it serious shifts in color.

Long story short, Roland has finally come back and said it's "working as expected". I told them to send me print samples from one of their machines to compare against mine... and all I can say is wow! If this is the quality they consider "acceptable", I'd say they have a problem with this lineup of machines.

Case in point... they've said sellable prints up to 1098sqft per hour. Look at my attached image (and don't pay attention to the resolution of the background - the client provided it this way)... this wasn't even printed at a high speed... but does it look sellable at all?

I've went through ink tube replacements for "ink starvation", calibrations etc... still the same results. If I slow the heads to 2 to 300mm/s and put it in Uni-directional mode I get "better" results, or if I print in 1440 HQ. But I shouldn't have to do this on their "Rocket Fast" machine. I also purchased a GX-640 cutter at the same time that has failed as well.

I've own Roland products for years without issue. But this experience has certainly left me with no desire to use their products in the future. The service and support, the "trouble free" warrantee... nearly nonexistent. This has been a HUGE disappointment.

If there are any other XF or XR owners out there that care to share their experiences with me, please feel free to PM me!

 

[BALLPARK]

Wow... so disappointing hearing all the problems with the XR-640. I still run the XC-540 and not sure how they can go from a printer built like a tank to a new version that has so many issues.

I hope they fix the issues soon, but no way that last image of the print would pass quality control here. If they say that is okay... I would stay away from that machine.

 

[petepaz]

sorry to hear your problems. we have an xr and it's been great (so far) we also have 3 other roland machines and i have to say our dealers and roland have always been great when we have had issues.we deal with tyrrell tech and nazdar both are quick to get us up and running when we have had issues. but back to your problem (this may sound stupid) have you got in and looked at the print heads and capping station area with a flash light. we had some banding issues and it turned out i had a small hair stuck on the print head that i couldn't see with out looking in there with a flash light. also are you having the same issue when printing regular vinyl or is it just the banner material?

 

[CS-SignSupply]

We have learned that when installing the XR's, we have to spend an extra hour or two dialing in the printheads and print/cut alignment using ONLY PET-G MATERIAL using a 25x-30x loupe.

The precision at which these units have to be dialed in is very tight. As is the order in which you make the precision adjustments. If neither is correct, you will have to start over again.

It is remarkable how the old days "Spec" was within 1 full dot on Pet-G and now it can be dialed in to be exact using 30x mag. The XC's can be dialed in within half a dot and you could not see a change in print quality, assuming profile is good.

If the heads are not perfect, the print results are way off.

I hope you get your problem resolved.

 

[graphicwarning]

petepaz, I have other Roland devices too... they work great and I love them. This setup, and the service I have been receiving have been more than disappointing.

As for the media, it's on all media. Unless printed on HQ, there are color shifts present. Even the samples that Roland sent me directly have this banding issue. I don't think it's isolated to just my machine, but of course I don't know this for sure. I can only attest to my machine, and the machine that printed the samples they sent me.

CS - my dealer was here with a 60x loupe if I'm not mistaken, and he spent an entire here day calibrating with the PET-G material. Working back and forth Roland, he actually did it 4 times if I am not mistaken, to get it dialed in 100%. He showed me the process used, and the changes to make etc... it is so incredibly precise, I'm glad it was him and not me.

After the calibrations were made, there was an improvement, but it's a long ways from being right.

I'll keep everyone updated when I get more info.

 

[DRamm76]

We have learned that when installing the XR's, we have to spend an extra hour or two dialing in the printheads and print/cut alignment using ONLY PET-G MATERIAL using a 25x-30x loupe.

The precision at which these units have to be dialed in is very tight. As is the order in which you make the precision adjustments. If neither is correct, you will have to start over again.

It is remarkable how the old days "Spec" was within 1 full dot on Pet-G and now it can be dialed in to be exact using 30x mag. The XC's can be dialed in within half a dot and you could not see a change in print quality, assuming profile is good.

If the heads are not perfect, the print results are way off.

I hope you get your problem resolved.

I was just going to write a similar post!
@PetePaz Thanks for the shout out. Always try to be there when I can!

Sorry you having so many issues with the XF-640. I have a customer in Livingston NJ who runs at High Speed constantly on the unit and has great output quality. I'll talk to him this week if you like and see if I can pick his brain a bit on the settings and profiles he uses.

 

[Jack Knight1979]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. It's very disappointing to hear "prints within spec", when you know damn well that it's not. When you print a test fill pattern, does the cyan channel lay down ink as it should? It looks to me like at least one of your heads can't keep up with the output demand. It could be a head or further up the line, like head board electrical output. Roland needs to swap out both heads and the head board in my opinion. If that doesn't do it. Main board or new printer.

This doesn't look like a calibration problem to me.

 

[fidelik]

same problem

I have just the same problem with my xf-640, only with black and cyan, and with some graphics even 16 pass 1440x1440 dpi (4 square meters/hour) mode is far away from perfect, and yesterday my dealer said that they have similar problem with new versa express RF-640 (the difference is the stripes appears on the left and right side of the print) and working to resolve this problem. i'm SO dissapointed.

 

[JoshLoring]

Same problem here with Black and Cyan only. This is my 2nd XR printer and 3rd full set of heads.
I'm still seeing banding... It's definitely not user error.

 

[dispen]

I've tried everything with this machine, and Roland and my dealer have been providing assistance (if you can call it that) at a snails pace. I understand they have other clients than just me... but my problem has been going on for a little over 2 months now, with no resolution. I have produced one revenue generating job from this machine... a set of banners, since I received it and they had to be printed on high quality mode to do so.

I cannot get decent results on any media really... and I don't believe I ever will. I am fully aware of bi-directional banding... but this is unbelievable. I cannot print a "solid color" without shifts in color. Forget about calling it "banding"... lets just call it serious shifts in color.

Long story short, Roland has finally come back and said it's "working as expected". I told them to send me print samples from one of their machines to compare against mine... and all I can say is wow! If this is the quality they consider "acceptable", I'd say they have a problem with this lineup of machines.

Case in point... they've said sellable prints up to 1098sqft per hour. Look at my attached image (and don't pay attention to the resolution of the background - the client provided it this way)... this wasn't even printed at a high speed... but does it look sellable at all?

I've went through ink tube replacements for "ink starvation", calibrations etc... still the same results. If I slow the heads to 2 to 300mm/s and put it in Uni-directional mode I get "better" results, or if I print in 1440 HQ. But I shouldn't have to do this on their "Rocket Fast" machine. I also purchased a GX-640 cutter at the same time that has failed as well.

I've own Roland products for years without issue. But this experience has certainly left me with no desire to use their products in the future. The service and support, the "trouble free" warrantee... nearly nonexistent. This has been a HUGE disappointment.

If there are any other XF or XR owners out there that care to share their experiences with me, please feel free to PM me!

I am so sorry for your problems. my printing results weren't so bad. Maybe just luck ha?

Could you please tell me how long have you been printing with that XF-640?
Do you operate it 7/24?

I am asking to conclude a result about the printheads.

Best Regards...