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offgassing question

Morph1

Morph1

Print all
Hi all,

I kind of rushed with laminating 3m IJ180 only 20 hours offgassing now I attepted to lay the hood
And the vinyl stretches on me pretty bad and I can't work it...
I decided to post pone the install and let the vinyl sit unrolled for a couple of days...
Is that gonna help ?, is it gonna off gas through the laminate ?
I was under a tight deadline and it had to be done lol
Now I gotta wait anyhow...
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
Jr Douglas Imaging

Jr Douglas Imaging

New Member
Depending on what printed it on. you used 180c is mostly affected by too much pressure on the laminator if it's still out gassing. If you get it on and your substrate is clean and prepped properly it should be ok. You can crush the "comply" of the adhesive if you use too much pressure on the laminator

we run 180 all the time and normally don't wait for the "reccomened" time for out gassing and never have issues after install.

We run 2 Epson gs6000 and 1 50670. Drytac laminator but we do run in house profiles with onyx and xrite

also if it is tacky measure make reference marks and get a buddy to help not over stretching
 
Morph1

Morph1

Print all
ResolutionInk said:
We run 2 Epson gs6000 and 1 50670. Drytac laminator but we do run in house profiles with onyx and xrite

also if it is tacky measure make reference marks and get a buddy to help not over stretching
Click to expand...

Sorry are your printers running eco-solvent inks ?, also regarding the product, this 3M I have received the adhesive seems way more tacky almost impossible to reposition...,
what I got is 3M IJ180CV3 ... is this the most common 3M digital wrapping film ?
I am so used to Arlon DPF6000 XRP and I always had in mind that 3M was less aggressive and easier to reposition film...
I also heard that 3M made their adhesive more aggressive due to reported product failures, is that true ?
any thought on that ?

thanks .
 
bob

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
It has nothing to do with the urban myth of 'out gassing', 'off gassing', or what ever they call it in your village. It has to do with vinyl being saturated to some degree or another with solvent, or eco solvent, ink. It takes a bit for the vinyl to recover its composure so to speak. Until that time it will be extremely flexible.

The volatile and therefore evaporative solvent in the ink are long gone after a rather brief time, generally measured in minutes. Since this sort of vinyl is gas permeable, it matters not a whit if it's laminated or not. Actually, since any laminate is pretty much unaffected by the printed vinyl to which it's applied, it ought to stiffen things up a bit and not screw up your application. Sort of like a shot of Viagra so to speak.
 
Morph1

Morph1

Print all
bob said:
It has nothing to do with the urban myth of 'out gassing', 'off gassing', or what ever they call it in your village. It has to do with vinyl being saturated to some degree or another with solvent, or eco solvent, ink. It takes a bit for the vinyl to recover its composure so to speak. Until that time it will be extremely flexible.

The volatile and therefore evaporative solvent in the ink are long gone after a rather brief time, generally measured in minutes. Since this sort of vinyl is gas permeable, it matters not a whit if it's laminated or not. Actually, since any laminate is pretty much unaffected by the printed vinyl to which it's applied, it ought to stiffen things up a bit and not screw up your application. Sort of like a shot of Viagra so to speak.
Click to expand...


Sorry bud but I do not think you ever applied a single square foot of digitally printed vinyl...
your answer does not contribute to anything that I asked for...
BTW off-gassing it's a process of solvent evaporating from the media and it takes some time, it does not happen immediately after printed....
 
heyskull

heyskull

New Member
If the material is flooded with colour you will have to let it out gas especially if it is a dark colour as the amount of ink applied makes the material very soft and stretchy. But we have all damaged a panel and had to reprint a part and never thought anything about ringing the customer and telling them "they will have to wait another 24 hours till they can have their vehicle back" SC
 
ams

ams

New Member
What kind of ink are you using? If you are using solvent, it's recommended for 24 hours drying time. I heard 14 hours is fine.
Eco-solvent is recommended at 12 hours, however with mine, heavy ink wait 5 hours and light ink 3 hours. Laminates fine with no curing bubbles.
Latex and UV wouldn't have a waiting period. But for me, I'd still wait 15 minutes or so.

By the way each vinyl, banner, textile, etc have different curing times. So you will have to experiment.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
Morph1 said:
Sorry bud but I do not think you ever applied a single square foot of digitally printed vinyl...
your answer does not contribute to anything that I asked for...
BTW off-gassing it's a process of solvent evaporating from the media and it takes some time, it does not happen immediately after printed....
Click to expand...

Says the guy asking if it will help if he lets it sit there for a couple days lamianated and will it offgas through the laminate and can't work with the tacky vinyl on a hood.
If you don't think his reason is correct...don't accuse the man of having never applied a square foot of digitally printed vinyl. He seems to know more about the properties of solvent inks than you do. He may or may not be right but the very fact that you asked an elementary digital print question is a little more than telling.
Don't be rude to folks who are really trying to help explain things...or you get guys like me that will give you a hard time for doing so.
 
B

Bosh

New Member
Short answers:

NO - Prints will not off-gas after being laminated. (at least not in a way meaningful to this question)

YES - Prints laminated before sufficient off-gassing handle VERY differently than intended. More importantly, prints that have not been off- gassed can/may/will fail - even with impeccable install technique. Really. Anyone who says otherwise is making the "my grandpa smoked three packs a day and lived to 120 years old" argument- you may be able to get away with it, but it is not a "best practice".
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
BTW off-gassing it's a process of solvent evaporating
Click to expand...
Very astute.
Most of us knew that from way back in the 90's
As for the drying of prints. As bob said. It dries in a matter of minutes.
There is residual changes in the plastic from the solvents that take time to resolve. But the solvent is long gone.
 
T

tmedvetz

New Member
Offgassing in Roll

Is it OK to offgas while printed material is still in a roll? Can I just let it off gas a longer time if it is in a roll? We print hundreds of feet of solvent at a time and it is just not possible to lay out everything due to lack of space. I have not had any problems or failure that I know of due to not off gassing for long enough periods but I don't want to learn the hard way.
 
S

spectrum maine

New Member
off gassing is real

i have removed wraps on white cars where the ink gassed into the white paint & left behind an image. i can almost guarantee that the print was laminated & applied too soon. in 1 particular instance it was a lease car & the customer had to buy it. you could read the image (although light) distinctly in the paint.
 
T

tmedvetz

New Member
spectrum maine said:
i have removed wraps on white cars where the ink gassed into the white paint & left behind an image. i can almost guarantee that the print was laminated & applied too soon. in 1 particular instance it was a lease car & the customer had to buy it. you could read the image (although light) distinctly in the paint.
Click to expand...

Wow! That would be a costly mistake. I usually let everything set for at least 24 hours, but sometimes it is in a roll.
 
S'N'S

S'N'S

New Member
spectrum maine said:
i have removed wraps on white cars where the ink gassed into the white paint & left behind an image. i can almost guarantee that the print was laminated & applied too soon. in 1 particular instance it was a lease car & the customer had to buy it. you could read the image (although light) distinctly in the paint.
Click to expand...

I would say this is more to do with the ink not being fully dried, laminated & installed "wet" than any "out gassing"
 
B

BALLPARK

New Member
When we have issues with a panel we cut a test piece off and hang it from the mirror. If it stretches or curls real bad then we think it's because of too much saturation from our Eco-solvent inks in terms of coverage. We will try to reprint the panels if needed or time allows it. It makes it much harder to install the wraps and that keeps us from focusing on the next project. When that does happen I don't think it will help giving it 48 hours before laminating. We look at like... bit the bullet or be prepared for a much harder install.

We try to give heavy saturation based wrap panels 24 hours to cure, when possible. It's not easy to find the table space to lay them out, but we do the best we can.

If we focused more on wraps compared to rigid substrates then we would add a latex. It has issues as well... but we would dial it in the best we could just for wraps. Many times I worry about some of the solvent prints with short deadline for printing and finishing to hit the deadline for the install.
 
P

player

New Member
If I can I go 48 hrs. I recently did some 4' x 8' reflective panels with a really thick dark blue and I waited 72 hrs. I always loosely coil the prints and set them on milk crates so the solvents can drop down through the vents in the crate as they are heavier than air.
 
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