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Outgassing
- Thread starter rmtosh
- Start date
gabagoo
New Member
Letterbox Mike
New Member
The higher the solvent content the more outgassing is a reality. Low-solvent inks on Rolands and Mutohs may not need to outgas much, but I can say with absolute certainty that if your printer has a higher solvent level than "eco-solvent" you need to let things cure longer than 10 minutes.
I know this because I broke my own rule last week and rushed a job out the door for a customer. Heavy ink coverage. We let it sit for about 45 minutes, then laminated. The ink was dry to the "knuckle-drag" test but it was not cured by any means. Today I had to reprint the job because the outgassing dissolved the laminate from underneath in spots, creating bubbles, haziness and weird delamination issues. That's what we get for breaking the rules.
Anything you can do to increase the amount of heat on the prints as they are coming off the printer the better. We run a couple Digi-Dry driers and they help tremendously with the outgassing/curing time.
I know this because I broke my own rule last week and rushed a job out the door for a customer. Heavy ink coverage. We let it sit for about 45 minutes, then laminated. The ink was dry to the "knuckle-drag" test but it was not cured by any means. Today I had to reprint the job because the outgassing dissolved the laminate from underneath in spots, creating bubbles, haziness and weird delamination issues. That's what we get for breaking the rules.
Anything you can do to increase the amount of heat on the prints as they are coming off the printer the better. We run a couple Digi-Dry driers and they help tremendously with the outgassing/curing time.
gabagoo
New Member
that cant be true. I leave rolled up prints on the roll, but smaller prints that dont make it to the roll I leave on tables flat overnight and have never had a problem. Not sure how when lying flat the gas has nowhere to go, but rolled up it can escape...that just makes no sense to me.
While I too have done the same as Mosh and Flame, there is a definite difference between installing a non outgassed print versus one that sat for at least 24 hours as far as wraps are concerned.
As far as lifetimes go, I am not sure there is a difference at all in all the work that I have done. There is a trailer I see often and it has a "properly" out-gassed panel right next to a print/lam within minutes of each other, 3 years old, looks identical and both are holding just fine.
Maybe it does something, but I haven't had anything bad because of it.
As far as lifetimes go, I am not sure there is a difference at all in all the work that I have done. There is a trailer I see often and it has a "properly" out-gassed panel right next to a print/lam within minutes of each other, 3 years old, looks identical and both are holding just fine.
Maybe it does something, but I haven't had anything bad because of it.
gabagoo
New Member
It's just what someone told me once.... due to the solvent gas being heavier than air...it wants to go down and has nowhere to go?
Doesn't make much sense to me either...I'm no scientist.
All I know is I don't have bench space to waste nor do I ever want to be replacing prints, so I roll em up!
Maybe I should've just said that....?
I was thinking about this and then I thought about screen printers and drying racks. Everything they print is laid out flat and stacked on the racks.
I would think that the ink from screening would have even more outgassing than a solvent ink printer.
Just a thought...I could be wrong
The heavier the coverage the longer I like to leave it sit. I don't know about outgassing and it's effects, I just know that the ink eats into the vinyl and it settles once fully dried. Have I laminated immediately? Sure, but not anything with heavy ink on it.
jc
But then again
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bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Proof of what? That solvent inks attack vinyl? we already knew that.
Certainly not proof of the mythical will-o-the-wisp phenomenon of 'outgassing'. What does flexibility or consistency or whatever you want to call it have to do with outgassing?
Actually, the question of outgassing as it might apply to lamination is moot. Since virtually all vinyl media, including laminate, is gas permeable, if it's going to give off noxious fumes, it can do so even if it's laminated.
The howler about rolling it up vice laying it flat is especially entertaining. If various heavier than air gasses were boiling off a print [a fact yet to be established], being gasses, they'd just naturally find a way off the table. Even if they just stay there like a malignant cloud, they wouldn't be in the vinyl anymore. If they were there to begin with.Try an experiment, loose a bit propane, inarguably heavier than air, on a table top and see if it manages to stay there and not run to a lower level.
I should think that the bogeyman of outgassing and all of the silliness attendant upon it is promulgated by legions of illiterati lurching through life without anything resembling a clue as to the physical laws under which the universe labors.
J
john1
Guest
I lam with the BS and i usually wait a few hours before laminating due to seeing bubbles in the lam directly after i apply laminate to a non-outgassed print. That's my take from what's happened to me.
Joe Diaz
New Member
We have let prints sit and we have done a few where we install them right away. I can't tell the difference between the ones that were installed right away and the ones that weren't. My brother seems to think the vinyl adheres more aggressively when you laminate right away. BUT I have found no signs or proof that letting prints sit for longer periods of time have made any kind of difference in the longevity. Perhaps with our printer and material it doesn't. We use a versacamm and oracal.
anotherdog
New Member
We tell customers that they can't have the job right away because it needs to set overnight before we laminate, thus extending the already long life of the superior product we are selling etc.etc.
Customer impressed, me not rushed. If it actually works...bonus!
We lightly roll up, tape and stand on one end and do all the laminating in the morning.
Customer impressed, me not rushed. If it actually works...bonus!
We lightly roll up, tape and stand on one end and do all the laminating in the morning.
Tony Rome
New Member
If you are installing a vehicle wrap let it out gas or dry (whatever term you feel better).
Laying flat is best, but just give it at least 12 hours to, whatever you want to call it.
(And yes, I have printed and laminated quickly and although you will get the job done it is a little more of a PIA to install)
This will make install go a lot better, you will see edges won't be curling up, piece lays flat on vehicle.
This is ONLY for Eco Solvent Ink for a Roland. I can not speak to latex or whatever else is out there.
Good luck, and don't be to quick to state an opinion unless you are talking apples to apples (material, machine, type of project).
Laying flat is best, but just give it at least 12 hours to, whatever you want to call it.
(And yes, I have printed and laminated quickly and although you will get the job done it is a little more of a PIA to install)
This will make install go a lot better, you will see edges won't be curling up, piece lays flat on vehicle.
This is ONLY for Eco Solvent Ink for a Roland. I can not speak to latex or whatever else is out there.
Good luck, and don't be to quick to state an opinion unless you are talking apples to apples (material, machine, type of project).