Preliminary education & search for a printer

[chrisinestes]

I'm thinking about adding a wide format printer to my shop. I know very little about printing on vinyl. I do mostly wood and cut vinyl signage, and if I really need a print, I farm it out. I'd use prints more if I had a little printer, though.

What I (think) I know is this:
A maximum width of 30".
Solvent or eco solvent. I could vent a room if I had to.
It'll have to be used. I can't come anywhere near affording a new one. Even something that I could refurb myself would be fine a long as parts are still available.
Print speed isn't important.
It'd be used for stickers and sign parts. I wouldn't do any wraps.
EDIT: It'll most likely need t have cutting capabilities because it' not likely I can get the prints lined up in my old Vytek Gem cutter

So, what have I left out? What printers should I look around for?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Gino]

I think it'll be a nice addition to your scope of work already in progress.

I would say to wait until you can afford a used 54" printer/plotter. While you won't use it much in your line of work, once you..... or anyone has one, next week someone will ask you for a 36" x 48" banner. You're back to square one..... farming out. You'll be capable of selling much more than you think and once you have it, it will just open new doors for you. It would be better for you to be prepared than to sink a little money into something which will never fit your needs.

 

[Kollman32]

Take it from a business owner that is/was in the same footsteps as you. I purchased a 48" Mutoh 1204 printer not knowing much about eco-solvent printing but had worked on inkjet printers in an industrial setting(3M Corporation). The thing that nobody tells you is: The mess they CAN make, they have a very distict smell which i found annoying, you will have to bend your brain around smart chips on cartridges unless you buy a bulk system and totally upgrade($$$), you have to pretty much use them 3-4 times a week to keep it operable(otherwise they clog), and you better have a spare set of ink, cleaning cartridges in case you go on vacation, and have plenty of spare parts because the things break.....alot. I had been farming out all my print jobs and decided to be like you and it bit me in the @$$. I will continue to farm my stuff out becuase if for some reason the printer doesn't work, its not my fault! The guy that does my printing has a Roland 540i that prints metallics, etc. and he even says his is a pain and you just have to keep them printing. If you decide to get one, make sure you see it run, have them do a nozzle check and show you the basics. This will save you time and money. Good luck my friend!

 

[MikePro]

+1 to sticking with a printer that has ability to handle 48" material. Even if you're only gonna use it here/there, versatility is the reason you're getting a printer in the first place... so why limit yourself to a small selection of media available to you?

 

[oksigns]

I second what everyone says. At my old shop, the owners really wished they could cut vinyl despite having printing capabilities so they are looking for a plotter solution to compliment their existing printer.

you want to be versatile but within scope of your current jobs.

 

[chrisinestes]

Thanks for the input.

I'm sure I don't want a 48+" printer. It's just too much. 24" to 30" is where I want to be. If I need a wider print, I can farm it out. I had an older 54" HP Designjet 3800cp aqueous ink printer for a short while. It was just too much printer and I didn't like it. I bought it uber cheap, so when a lightning strike took it out, I wasn't really vey upset. I decided to sell it for $20 on Craigslist rather than fix it.

I know the solvent inks are stinky, and the eco-solvent inks are less stinky. I can vent the printer room if I have to. Yup, I'd have spare parts around for it.

So, who makes workhorse printers? A brand with lots of spare parts available? Something I can buy used. The printer equivalent of a small block chevy engine...

Thanks,
Chris

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

honestly i think you will regret not getting somthing bigger. I have a 54" Mutoh and supper happy with speed and quality. Mine is brand new but there are some great deals out there on refurbs you just gotta shop the web and find some dealers that resell and repair.

you can get a new Mutoh VJ1204 48" for about 10k i think, and there is good sale on Mutoh right now. 54" 1324 models are about 16k with the deal

as far as print n cut operations any printer you can print a "print and cut file " with the adobe/corel cut master plug in, you just need a ARMS graphtec plotter you can find those used about $2500 depending on the model.

Eco solvent ink doent put of that odor like the old solvent inks did, so dont worry about venting or scrubbing the air with eco.

as long as you print every couple days and keep them clean you usally dont have problems, but like anything tech it will have problems to solve, thats just the nature of the beast.

 

[jaylem]

sign and digital graphics

If you don't have a subscription to Sign and Digital Graphics you should get on their list. Lots of very useful info in almost every issue.

btw
I think you will find most research will show a need for vent or air purification, even with eco solvent.

You should consider searching this blog, there are lots of discussions on what you are asking.

 

[player]

Yes the solvent that eco-sol ink uses is anything but healthy. It causes all kinds of serious health issues.

 

[player]

Eco Solvent inks are 50 to 55%

DIETHYLENE GLYCOL DIETHYL ETHER

Here is what it can do to you

Health Hazard
SYMPTOMS: Symptoms of exposure to this compound include irritation of the skin, eyes, mucous membranes and respiratory tract, coughing, dyspnea and kidney damage. Other symptoms may include nausea, vomiting, headache and central nervous system depression. Exposure may also cause diarrhea, abdominal and lumbar pain, mild liver damage, pulmonary edema, transient polyuria, oliguria, anuria and death by acute renal failure.

ACUTE/CHRONIC HAZARDS: This compound may be harmful by inhalation, ingestion or skin absorption. It is an irritant of the skin, eyes, mucous membranes and respiratory tract. When heated to decomposition it emits acrid smoke, irritating fumes and toxic fumes of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. (NTP, 1992)
Reactivity Profile
DIETHYLENE GLYCOL DIETHYL ETHER is incompatible with strong acids. It is also incompatible with strong oxidizing agents.(NTP, 1992)

 

[chrisinestes]

DIETHYLENE GLYCOL DIETHYL ETHER?!?! Yeah, OK... I'll vent it. There's an unused vent stack in the attic above the room I'd print in, so it'd be easy enough to do.

I swear I'm aware a wider printer could be more useful at times... But I really don't want anything past 30".

An acquaintance of mine bought an older Mimaki. I can't recall which model, but it was around a 30-incher that was new 10- 12 years ago. It needed new print heads & a good cleaning. He paid $600 - $800 for it. So, for under $2000 (I think), he had a working printer. That's the kind of deal I need if I'm going to have a printer. Hmmm.. I' have to look him up ad see if he'd sell it, or maybe trade it for CNC router time.

I do get Sign & Digital Graphics. I normally just glance through them ad toss 'em because I didn't have getting a printer on the front burner. I'll start giving them a good look from now on though.

Thanks for the help,
Chris