-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Price of gasoline, petroleum.. etc.
- Thread starter petesign
- Start date
Bring on the gas increase, tired of seeing commuter cookie cutter utopias with no culture. Live where you live! With my average daily mileage being somewhere under 10, it'll take a lot before I'm feeling it, even with my inefficient kid hauler.
No idea on vinyl pricing, I would think any impact would be pretty diffused along the product chain. Especially with the low cost of natural gas.
No idea on vinyl pricing, I would think any impact would be pretty diffused along the product chain. Especially with the low cost of natural gas.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
You are welcome to talk about the technology, the economics, the effect on the sign industry. But as soon as it turns to this politician should do this or that one is to blame, then that post, at my sole discretion gets deleted.
In answer to your question, of course it will. Vinyl is a petroleum based product, as is the adhesive and the coating on the release paper. And it all takes energy to manufacture and transport to market. It's definitely not a good time to print a price list because it's going to be out of date in a hurry.
The economics of it may be a revelation to some ... that it's a global market so that domestic production has an almost negligible effect except in the area of trade deficits. Further that futures speculation has an effect and is being abused, but is necessary for the markets to function. The government has a very limited role it can play. It can use the bully pulpit to some effect and it can resort to export tariffs.
In answer to your question, of course it will. Vinyl is a petroleum based product, as is the adhesive and the coating on the release paper. And it all takes energy to manufacture and transport to market. It's definitely not a good time to print a price list because it's going to be out of date in a hurry.
The economics of it may be a revelation to some ... that it's a global market so that domestic production has an almost negligible effect except in the area of trade deficits. Further that futures speculation has an effect and is being abused, but is necessary for the markets to function. The government has a very limited role it can play. It can use the bully pulpit to some effect and it can resort to export tariffs.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
It's called supply and demand in a global market.
petesign
New Member
It is weird that it is more effective to import a bunch from half way across the world and then turn around and export some to someplace else... or are we importing oil, refining it, and sending out the refined stuff somewhere else?
Export tariff's sound good until you think that maybe they will just refine it someplace else then...
I won't lie. I am worried about my business if the price of gas hits $5 a gallon. I think the economy will tank.
Export tariff's sound good until you think that maybe they will just refine it someplace else then...
I won't lie. I am worried about my business if the price of gas hits $5 a gallon. I think the economy will tank.
I think you're right in that the price increase we'll see will in part be due to increased transportation costs. That said, there are a few spots around the country reopening and expanding plastics operations due to the abundance of natural gas so it's really hard to predict what's going to happen at X price point of oil barrels.
And agreeing with above, we export because it makes financial sense to export and our domestic supply is a lot less threatened than the media likes to rattle chains about. And as stated, we have refineries. Lots of them.
phototec
New Member
You bet it will, folks will have to pay what ever for gas, but they will cut back with other expenses like signs and banners, etc.
And just watch what this does to the price of everything else and our overall economy, when the fuel costs go up, transportation of goods will go up as well. In most parts of the US over-road trucking is used to transport everything, most retail stores will have to raise prices.
The cost of fuel for school buses here in Texas has already caused Waco Texas to close several schools and transfer students to other schools so they can cut back on overhead operating expenses. This is going to cause over crouding in the remaining schools.
I think the price will go higher. Production in the gulf is down 30%. I spoke with someone last weekend who had just been laid off along with 180 otheres, he works for a company that drills in the gulf but only in shallow water. They have 50 wells to drill but only getting one or two drilling permits a year.
He will probably head to North Dakota, huge demand up there for people who want to work.
Permits for drilling on federal land are taking so long companies aren't bidding on the leases.
I think there have been three refineries in American and one in the Virgin Islands that have been shut down and that will cause shortages in some areas of the country. We have over 30 blends of gasoline in America due to EPA regulations, if it were cut down to a handful that could drop the prices a bit.
Since America has so much natural gas it sure would make sense to convert heavy duty trucks to run on it.
Battery hybrids are being pushed like crazy, but most major car companies are putting their money into hydrogen powered fuel cell cars which have no pollution at all.
He will probably head to North Dakota, huge demand up there for people who want to work.
Permits for drilling on federal land are taking so long companies aren't bidding on the leases.
I think there have been three refineries in American and one in the Virgin Islands that have been shut down and that will cause shortages in some areas of the country. We have over 30 blends of gasoline in America due to EPA regulations, if it were cut down to a handful that could drop the prices a bit.
Since America has so much natural gas it sure would make sense to convert heavy duty trucks to run on it.
Battery hybrids are being pushed like crazy, but most major car companies are putting their money into hydrogen powered fuel cell cars which have no pollution at all.
phototec
New Member
Fred, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this, it starts at the TOP, and was a very sad day for our country, when someone halted off-shore drilling and shut down the Keystone pipeline project, just when we will be needing local petroleum development for domestic use!
http://www.transcanada.com/keystone.html
Flame
New Member
What does this mean...?
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Talk about some nice retro-fitting of some parts. Especially if you want to be able to use used veggie oil, but even the new "pure" stuff can give you problems as well.
Trust me, my 6.0 PSD loves to drink and drink often, but if you actually crunched the numbers on everything associated with converting a vehicle to this, the C/B ratio doesn't make sense unless you are able to do fuel production and a pretty good scale. Not just the basic back yard'er.
As far as natural gas, hydrogen, electrical outlets for battery recharge stations etc, the infrastructure just isn't there yet. Now the one positive thing about raising prices on one input, that forces people to come up with alternatives or alternatives that were too pricey initially are now more viable. The most notable example is what happened with Whale Blubber and the coming of Kerosene.
The biggest thing for me is that whatever options that are explored, really need to be realistically renewable. I don't see the point of replacing one finite input with another finite input unless there is a long term plan. While inputs like oil are renewable from a geological standpoint, it doesn't do us any good for quite a few generations (if we are lucky).
Eventually this bullet is going to have be "bitten". After awhile we adapt and find ways to work around everything. It's what we do.
Pat Whatley
New Member
My Grimco rep told me that the price of coro is going up 12% next week and they're expecting another big jump by summer. Vinyl can't be far behind that. Sure, I'll just pass the costs along to my customer but I'm already charging what I believe my market will bear. If I thought I could easily get another 10% for what I do I'd already be charging that.
Last time gas went to $4 a gallon my walk-in business when from 35% of my sales to less than 10%. If they go to $5 a gallon I'm probably going to close the doors to the retail shop and work from home because my walk-in business will be gone.
Last time gas went to $4 a gallon my walk-in business when from 35% of my sales to less than 10%. If they go to $5 a gallon I'm probably going to close the doors to the retail shop and work from home because my walk-in business will be gone.
round man
New Member
As long as petrochemicals are imported and they are shipped using seafaring vessels before they are refined they will be subject to the oil futures market speculation. You can just about set your clock by about 90 days and the current commodity price of oil by the barrel. If there is a huge increase in oil futures market today ,90 days from now the price setters for the oil refiners will increase the price of refined oil(gasoline ,chemicals to make vinyl,adhesives,etc,) accordingly. Another important factor is shipping insurance,...Loyds of London is the primary insurance provider for oil import shipping tankers and they adjust rates according to political turmoil and risks in any given shipping region. For example rates are currently ready to or are being increased for the gulf area due to tensions resulting from Iranian threats. Other than that I can only suggest you keep abreast of the current news pertaining to oil futures and political climate concerning the middle east oil trade,....
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Fred, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this, it starts at the TOP, and was a very sad day for our country, when someone halted off-shore drilling and shut down the Keystone pipeline project, just when we will be needing local petroleum development for domestic use!
http://www.transcanada.com/keystone.html
My point is that all increasing North American production does is to reduce what we spend to import from the world's oil producers. It doesn't mean the oil stays at home. If Brazil or China or India are willing to pay a higher price, then you see the effect of a global market. If Iran stops exporting to Europe then demand increases there and our domestic prices follow because the futures commodity price rises. Even if we have reduced demand here, you will still see the prices slow to retreat because overhead remains largely unchanged.
I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to increase production and build pipelines. Just that it isn't necessarily anything like a comprehensive answer to the problem. That takes government action and intervention into an otherwise relatively free market. If an oil company can make more profits exporting domestic oil than selling it here, that's what they'll do and I see nothing wrong with that since I believe in free markets.
The Vector Doctor
Chief Bezier Manipulator
We probably should get used to changing our habits. About 20 years ago my cousin from France visited us for about a month. 2 things she noticed immediately, all the cars were MUCH BIGGER and she commented how we drove around so much. We would run down to the store to pick up one or 2 things, drive to the video store, drive to the bank, etc. We drove almost every day for non-essential things. They usually run all errands on one trip rather than a bunch of short trips.
Their gas was probably 150-200% more than ours and probably still is. Cars are generally smaller because of the cost of gas and roads were not built to handle medium or larger cars. The roads within most older cities and towns are very tight.
Their gas was probably 150-200% more than ours and probably still is. Cars are generally smaller because of the cost of gas and roads were not built to handle medium or larger cars. The roads within most older cities and towns are very tight.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Very true. Efficient use of our trips is probably the worst thing that we do in general times. Size of vehicles not quite so easy to change depending on use, but can offset that some by how one drives the vehicle.
I think they pretty much still are. You also have to realize though that Europe has quite the public transportation system (trains are a biggie) that aren't available around here in abundance. I grew up in Plano Texas and we had the DART and whenever we are there, we use it over driving everywhere although not for fuel savings as a main reason, that happens to be a perk for us.
It's very hard to get what works in Europe over here. Much harder in practice then it is in theory. Changes need to be made, but it is a different set of circumstances.
TwoNine
New Member
Hi all - was talking to a Midwest Sign Supply sales rep today - he said that because of all this craziness with the price of petro, that they are now doing DAILY price updates on their website....DAILY.
I'll say again - DAILY. Come on. Really? If petro is rising that quickly and is going to hit 5 bucks a gallon by summer I think the U.S. is in for it BIG TIME. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it takes to push the dollar off the edge in staying the world's primary trading currency. If that happens.....????
It's all craziness. It's all politics. It's all BS for you and me. Someone's making money - and that is all that matters to people who are way more connected than anyone on here is.
My guess: Tougher times ahead.
I'll say again - DAILY. Come on. Really? If petro is rising that quickly and is going to hit 5 bucks a gallon by summer I think the U.S. is in for it BIG TIME. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it takes to push the dollar off the edge in staying the world's primary trading currency. If that happens.....????
It's all craziness. It's all politics. It's all BS for you and me. Someone's making money - and that is all that matters to people who are way more connected than anyone on here is.
My guess: Tougher times ahead.