Printed Channel Letter Faces?

[SignAnnex]

Hey guys, first let me say I'm relatively new to the site and you guys have been simply amazing. I have gained so much insight from searching these threads.

I have a few questions pertaining to digitally printed channel letter faces. Until now all of my channel letter jobs have consisted of solid colored acrylic faces. I recently took on a job requiring a red/pink to white gradient.

What do you recommend for a media/laminate combination? Also what is the standard process for applying the contour cut media to the faces? All my faces and backs are router cut. My concern is the printed contour cut media won't fit perfectly after the trim caps are glued to the faces. I'm interested in hearing how you guys go about this process.

Also the customers professionally rendered Adobe Illistrator gradient looks more like four colors stepped together when printed (flexi pro 8.6 and a mutoh 1204 printer) It looks fine on screen until I do a test print. Is there a way to fix this problem or am I better of redoing the gradient in flexi? I have the adobe suite but do all my work in Flexi. I would love to learn to design in adobe... someday... Thanks Again!

 

[Letterbox Mike]

We print a lot of channel letter faces for one customer. They're usually (always actually) gradients like you describe. We print 2 ink layers on Orajet 3850 translucent white and laminate with cast matte laminate.

If exact color accuracy is a concern, do a two layer print, the top layer being one ink layer on the translucent white and the bottom layer being two ink layers on clear. Layer these two up through your laminator as accurately as possible. This will give you mroe accurate looking color during daylight hours and extra ink density at night so the colors don't look washed out. This is an extra step, can be tricky to produce, and costs more, but the result is as good as it gets.

For contour cutting for faces, we set up the cut file so there is about 1/4" excess all the way around, so when the vinyl is laid on the router-cut acrylic there is plenty to bleed off the edges. The prints are hand trimmed around the perimeter and all is good.

 

[John L]

Very good tips. Since it's a fade print, you are likely lighting it with white anyway. So another option might be to hold the vinyl inboard a little and leave a white outline.

I just finished a bunch of these tonite.

 

[Typestries]

Insignia hit the nail on the head. Do what he said and you'll be fine. John's inline suggestion also creates a cool halo effect, just use Mike's printing technique and cut accordingly.

 

[signcrafters london]

So it won't hurt to glue the trimcap to the trans vinyl using Weld On, rather than gluing directly to the acrylic? Good. I was worried about that. I've only done one set of channel letters using vinyl; I was worried about the glue so I trimmed the vinyl back about .125" from the edge of the letters.

 

[John L]

Actually no. The bond isnt as strong as in a joint with no vinyl under the edge. If the trim is tight fitting on your table, the difference isnt substantial though. Even though you can get a decent bond only off of the edge of the acrylic, the trim is going to be slightly more likely to break bond.

 

[J Hill Designs]

yeah in my experience the weld-on reacts with vinyl and causes it to melt...I always trim 1/8" of the edge before trim-capping

 

[MikePro]

+1 to white outlines, even if it's <.125" and the trim cap covers it anyways, as I hate trim capping with vinyl to the edge of the letter... allows me to keep the vinyl masked and scratch-free while i'm working on the trim cap table AND removes any chance that my trim cap glue might bleed through and burn the vinyl.

 

[SignAnnex]

Thanks for some great advice guys.

Insignia, When you say 2 layers of ink are you talking four passes, or laying ink down ontop of something that's already been printed? (I understand what you mean about overlaying the clear with the translucent) Also Orajet 3850 translucent white isn't availible under 54", unfortuantely I only have a 48"... are there alternatives?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

In your RIP you should be able to change a setting so it prints more than 1 layer of ink. Not passes in the traditional sense, like 4 pass or 8 pass, but it'll basically overlap each pass twice. It's like it prints the image twice. Every RIP is different so I don't know exactly what yours will call it.

You could try Avery (sorry guys), we've used a fair amount of their translucent, it seems to print well and we haven't had any failures with it. 3M Also, really any solvent printable translucent white should work, I'm sure something is available in sub-54" rolls. For that matter, if you can't find it printable, just get regular translucent white and wipe it down with alcohol before you print it, the only difference between printable and non-printable vinyls is the sterile environment print vinyl is made in.

 

[SignAnnex]

Thanks Insignia, makes sense now.

One last thing... how stongly do you feel about the matte laminate vs gloss laminate on this type of application?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

It's a tossup in my opinion. Translucent vinyl is always matte or satin finish, so some people prefer that. Personally, I like the look of gloss on a backlit sign face and matte on channel letter faces, but it all comes down to what you or the customer want.

 

[SignAnnex]

I was able to order the Oracal 3850 in a 50" roll with the Oraguard 215 overlaminate. I'm planning on double striking the media and skipping overlaying the clear for now. In my first few test runs (different material) I have discovered it is going to take a lot of tweaking to get the colors just right. The second pass substantially darkens the ink colors. Any tips on heat settings or second pass time delays? I am hoping Oracal made a good 3850 profile.

Thanks again insignia and everyone else you have extremely helpful and patient.

 

[visualeyez]

I print with the "return to origin after printing" box checked. Then print again, on top of your dried print. This to me is better then an overprint x2 because all of that ink mixes together in one pass and distorts the colors.

 

[SignAnnex]

Insignia, Do you apply the 3850 to the channel faces wet or dry?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Insignia, Do you apply the 3850 to the channel faces wet or dry?

wet if they're already router-cut to shape. We run the material through our laminator to mount is it's not cut yet.

As far as a pass delay while printing, it's hard to say, every printer is different, all inks dry at different rates. Just experiment with number of passes and delay times until you find a good combination of speed and quality. It takes some doing to get it right, this stuff can get bandy in a big hurry if you're not careful.

Also, regarding the darkening colors with two ink passes, that's exactly why the double-layer is the preferred method for maintaining accurate color. By only printing a single ink layer on the top white layer, you preserve the color's integrity during the daytime non-lit hours, but the extra two layers of ink on the underlying layer of clear give it the extra density go produce rich, vivid color at night when lit. It's a pain to do but highly worth it, the difference is night and day.