Replacing pan face with flat...

[Stacey K]

I have a good customer of mine who wants her pan faces replaced. I originally told her I don't do lifts and I'm not UL certified so she would need to contact XXX instead. She just sent me all the dimensions for "sleeves" I'm like what is a sleeve? She wants me to cut her regular poly in place of the pan faces. I said that's just not something I do, you can call XXX. She keeps arguing me that an electrician is putting new LED wiring in and she's going to install them so nothing can come back on me.

But - that's not the way I see it...am I being difficult?

4 signs at 67"x48"
2 signs at 67"x60"

I think I read from someone one time part of the pan face is what makes it sturdier and if you just put a flat piece in it could fall out. The business is also on a state highway so if there's an issue and she didn't get permits and I have no UL insurance...I'm liable, correct? (I have regular sign business insurance but I'm no electrician)

Thanks!

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Most cases whoever installs it is liable. I'd make those signs and hand it to her. It's not a huge issue doing flat for those size signs, just need to be mindful of hotspots in lighting and make sure you have at least 1.5" retainer. 1" retainers would be too small for flat. Pans are not THAT expensive. You could probably get all 4 signs delivered for $3k and decorate them yourself.

 

[Stacey K]

Most cases whoever installs it is liable. I'd make those signs and hand it to her. It's not a huge issue doing flat for those size signs, just need to be mindful of hotspots in lighting and make sure you have at least 1.5" retainer. 1" retainers would be too small for flat. Pans are not THAT expensive. You could probably get all 4 signs delivered for $3k and decorate them yourself.

What kind of material do I use?

 

[Gino]

Pan face certainly makes it stronger..... MUCH stronger, but pan faces were developed so the old 7-up, coke, pepsi and automotive places could make a cheaper 4" can and to get the faces far enough away from the fluorescent tubes, they went to pan faces to avoid the hot spots. Now, she's putting in LEDs, which are brighter, yet. She is gonna have horrible hot spots. Also, if the signs were designed for pan faces, she should stay with pan faces.

That's like saying I have a tesla, but I can't afford a new engine. I'm gonna put a VW motor in it. It'll work, cause I can't do it the right way.

You're not being difficult, you're being honest and sensible.

edit: I just saw your size requests. Like tex said, make sure if you go flat, the retainer is 1.5" or 2". If less, she should make adapters. You can use modified acrylic or poly-carb

 

[MikePro]

usually the point of a thermalformed face, is to offset the plastic from the illumination source in order to diffuse the lighting.
you CAN simply use flat faces, BUT chances are the sign is super slim and you will see hotspots.

we have "rigged it" in the past, by bending a frame to mimic the formed returns of an existing face and tape+rivoting it to the polycarbonate.
...or we simply replaced the flourescent tubing with an appropriate high-spread LED to compensate for potential hotspots and used a flat face.

 

[Gino]

usually the point of a thermalformed face, is to offset the plastic from the illumination source in order to diffuse the lighting.
you CAN simply use flat faces, BUT chances are the sign is super slim and you will see hotspots.

we have "rigged it" in the past, by bending a frame to mimic the formed returns of an existing face and tape+rivoting it to the polycarbonate.
...or we simply replaced the flourescent tubing with an appropriate high-spread LED to compensate for potential hotspots and used a flat face.

That all makes a lotta sense, but wouldn't that cost the customer more than what's called for after it's all finished ??

We had a shopping mall where we simply turned the LEDs sideways as if they were pointing toward the sides of the box, so it lessened the light facing the outwards.

 

[MikePro]

you can diffuse that way, yes, unless its a double-sided sign then you're going to lose a LOT of illumination by simply edge-lighting it like a VapeShop/Bodega window.

 

[Gino]

you can diffuse that way, yes, unless its a double-sided sign then you're going to lose a LOT of illumination by simply edge-lighting it like a VapeShop/Bodega window.

Get a load of this. It WAS double sided. However, it had a solid barrier down the middle, so we hadda do everything in duplicate. Light did not penetrate the metal barrier. Whomever made it, did it on purpose, but I can't figure out why. That's why, when I first looked at it, lights that were out, didn't match on both sides. I looked at one side and knew the length and how many retrofits would be needed. When we got to it and opened it up, we could only do one side. Hadda reorder the same thing

 

[MikePro]

doing weird things, yes you can illuminate a cabinet
....but it never turns out the way you'd hope/expect from direct illumination, especially if there is indirect light sources/pollution like street lights and/or other signs ....at that point, you may as well have just put a 40w bulb in the center of the cabinet and called it a discount.