Replicate existing dimensional letters - CURIOUS

[elroy]

I have a client that has an existing monument sign with dimensional letters on face.
As a total rookie (flat work/print shop) I am intrigued with the job and wondering how you would approach.
There are 5 lines of text on the sign and one of the lines needs to be deleted and replaced (new name).
I am wondering if (by looking at the photos) anyone can tell what material this is? It is a two-hour drive to location so I do not really want to drive just to determine the material.
ALso curious if you would suggest changing all letters or just the line with new name? I understand that new/finished letters would look different than existing.

 

[rossmosh]

If I had to guess, it's either painted PVC or HDU. I'm leaning towards HDU. It could be painted acrylic, but I have my doubts because it's such a flat finish and typically if it's acrylic, it's provided by someone like Gemini who uses more of a gloss finish.

As for the job, if they're cheap, the easiest way to handle the job is to cut down just the name and replace it with new letters. Do a different color so that you won't have an issue with things not matching up.

Otherwise, I'd cut down all the letters and replace it with a panel with dimensional letters. If electricity is near by, you could backlight the panel to give it a bit more of a look.

 

[bowtievega]

With that thin of a stroke I would do either flat cut or cast aluminum, especially if they are on standoffs as they are in this application. Looks to me like those are a cast product, you can see the slight bevel on the edge and they are probably around 3/4" thick with isn't real cost effective for flat cut. We would order those from Gemini. I would definitely match the existing paint to a color chart and ask Gemini to match the color and sheen of the paint finish.

 

[JBurton]

If I had to guess, it's either painted PVC or HDU. I'm leaning towards HDU. It could be painted acrylic, but I have my doubts because it's such a flat finish and typically if it's acrylic, it's provided by someone like Gemini who uses more of a gloss finish.

I'll wager on cast aluminum, notice how the rear sides of the letters appear to be wider than the front, as the edge approaches the back you can just barely perceive this slight taper. As far as the flat finish, I believe they are just old enough that the paint has given up the ghost.
I'd repaint all the letters and order new ones primed, and paint them so all matched well. If you're not geared to paint, I'd try to sell them a new set with a more modern font.

 

[White Haus]

What's happening with those studs and spacers? Looks like a bit of a hodge-podge install to me.

Personally I'd sell them a new set of cast aluminum letters from Gemini.

I guess one downside of doing all new is that you'll be left with a bunch of holes everywhere from those studs.

The contrast between those letters and the brick/mortar isn't too great either, could maybe suggest some kind of lighter color backer panel while you're at it, depending on their budget.

 

[JBurton]

Looks like a bit of a hodge-podge install to me.

First timer didn't use a drill depth gauge and couldn't be bothered to fix it...

 

[Gino]

Judging by the amount of oxidation and fading, I'd say they were in a long time and fatigue has set in in both the holes and lags. I'd have a good conversation with the customer explaining what all needs to be furnished to make it look good.

- All the letters should be taken down, prepped and repainted when you get the new replacements
- Explain the new letters might not match exactly making an eyesore possibly more noticeable
- All the holes should be plugged, unless you feel confident about fitting them back in

* This being your first time doing this, is not gonna be an easy task So much could go very wrong and you'll have nothing to pull from for answers.

Be plenty careful in doing this project.

 

[Billct2]

I agree with them probably being cast aluminum. Looks like they are incredibly old or were painted by the sign company, not someone like Gemini.
I'd price a the replacement letters from Gemini, buy them with as close a finish as you can to the final color. Remove them all and paint them all, including the new ones
and reinstall. The line of text that is changing should have the holes filled with a color silicone close to the brick color.

 

[DL Signs]

If you're not sure about matching everything, where the letters are is in a recessed area. I'd give them this option, put a panel over the brick in that recess with new dimensional (flush mount instead of standoffs/ flat cut/ HDU or PVC for light weight) letters attached to it. Rather than painting, use 6mm colored ACM (get some paint to match for screw/ bolt heads you'll be using to attach the panel), All you need is n accurate size of the opening, cut the panel slightly smaller to allow for error. Put all the letters on it in the shop, drill mounting holes in the panel (use the panel as a template to mark them on the brick), and install it as one piece. On site time would be minimal compared to other options, grind off the old letter standoffs flush, drill your new mounting holes, attach the panel, and run silicone around the parameter to seal it from moisture/ bugs. Option 2 would be to attach with an adhesive caulk, but if it ever had to be removed...
Old brick full of holes: hidden
potential for mismatched fonts: eliminated
Color match issues: gone
Painting: none (except for fastener heads)
Readability: improved
Price: somewhat higher because of materials, but labor time would be less.

 

[signbrad]

I also believe these letters are cast aluminum. The bevel is the giveaway. The bevel is required for release from the sand mold.

I like DL Signs' idea of using a panel. I would create a reverse pan instead of using a flat panel so that studs would not be a problem. The pan could be blind stud mounted so that no fasteners would be visible at all, or the pan could be mounted with angle aluminum cleats at the top and bottom. Use .080" for the panel. Use angle for the returns. You could color match the panel to the dark bricks for the background color, adding some matte additive to kill the gloss. Matthews even makes a suede additive that would kill the gloss and create a slight sand texture that might resemble masonry.

If the pan was slightly oversized it could hide the crooked vertical morter joint at the left. Legibility of the letters would be improved 100%.
The job could look like it was planned that way from the beginning.

I don't see how you could bid this job without a site visit, unless you are comfortable guessing letter size from a photo. Send a letter to Gemini when you order to help with the typestyle match. Gemini letters are often marked "Gemini" on the back. Also, there are Matthews formulas to match all Gemini colors if they want the same color on the new letters.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[visual800]

i agree with brad and gino. I would remove all letters and repaint all replacing copy with routed pvc and silicone them to a background painted aluminum.

the color of the letters against that brick was a horrible choice. When you remove these letters if they are hdu or pvc its going to rip out the studs from the rear of the letters anyway if they are are cast aluminum they will be fine

 

[Johnny Best]

I would give the customer three proposals in writing with sketches. One for as others say with new panel and names, another with completely removing and all new letters with new color, and third, sand existing faces and clean and just paint tops of letters and install new name (purchased from Gemini, matching their font with what is on there). Price all #3 high since you have never done this work and 4 hour trip. If you did a nice mock up of new panel with blind stud mounting and removal of old lettering is your best bet not to make it look shitty as other two proposals since you are new to this.