Decomurale
Custom wallpaper shop
Hi I am new to signs 101 and became a member because I was looking for feedback on the HP latex printers before actually purchasing one. Although I couldn't find anyone here who was using a Roland Eco Solvent and a HP Latex simultaneously I did go ahead and purchase one none the less.
We are a wall mural company and window film company. We have been using Roland printers since 2005. I have sworn by these machines and their performance for years. Until 3 months ago we only used a roland XR-640 for our print needs. What led us to also purchasing a HP Latex 360 is the lack of pre pasted wallpaper products compatible with eco-solvent ink. Being a wall mural company we had to be able to offer true wallpaper products and not just wall vinyl for many reasons that I won't elaborate right now, but would gladly do so if anyone here has any questions... HP has a product that we were looking for. It is called HP PVC Free Wallpaper, and it is a great product. Our supplier said it would never work with eco- solvent, however we tested it anyways and got very good initial results. We were happy and very surprised that we could use our roland to print on the hp wallpaper and put our Latex shopping aside. However it wasn't until a month later that we realized that the residue glue and water which smeared the print during install would not vanish after cleaning with a warm, wet cloth as it should. The inks were never fully set on the wallpaper and remained fragile even thought the prints felt dry to the touch and looked great. So many of our installs had issues needing resolve, and the only way to resolve this was to buy a latex printer for printing on this product we committed to.
Just so you know, I had been approached by suppliers time and time again to get into the latex market, and I never gave it a thought. I loved my roland, I depended on roland, and I loved my roland. I really was just looking for wallpaper that could work with my XR640. Every one I spoke to thought the HP latex printers were built cheap, used way to much power and heat and had way to many unresolved issues. I read and heard so many bad things about these Latex machines and their problems that I felt I was buying one just to regret it later on because I had no choice. And of course, When I went to the roland website in hope they could offer me a solution, or that some new model was out that could answer my needs I only found Roland to be spending lots of marketing and money convincing people that Latex was bad and eco-solvent was good rather than come up with a solution to meet new demand.
So I gave in. I bought the HP Latex 360. Not the 330, nor the 310. I said if I am going to do this, I will put all of the chances on my side and buy the bomb.
And here is my take after 3 months and nearly 5000 linear feet of latex print on my 360 and still also using my Roland XR-640.
1. Lets get to it, Print Quality. Hands down the Latex wins. The colours, the finish and the durability. Wow! I mean Wow! Banding is non existant, but most of all, for anyone who has had a busy shop and been forced into installing freshly printed eco-solvent graphics within 24 hours of drying will tell you that it is a pain in the a$$! They scratch! They curl! They are stretchy and they peel! I know that you are not supposed to, and we all say we don't. But when doing commercial work with strict deadlines, and a panel installation fails and your installer asks you for a replacement ''right now'', you just do it cause you have no choice. Well with the latex, the prints come out DRY! I mean cooked! Even after having done scratch and scuff tests with eco-solvent panels that have dried for over a week vs. freshly printed graphics that have just come out of the 360, The latex prints were stronger, nicer and much, much more resistant to scuffs and scratches. Their is an optimiser ink (OP cartridge) on the latex printer which acts as a clear coat which the roland does not have which I believe is the real reason behind this. But in any case, well worth it!
2. Technology- The HP wins. The latex 360 is a fully automated machine. Everything is automatic. Loading substrate, checking skew and offset, creating profiles, the take up system, the 8 inch touchscreen interface, the internet connectivity, etc. etc. I mean your miles ahead of anything roland has to offer.
I am not saying the HP Technology is perfect of course, I'm just saying there is so much more of it. The more options the more chances of things not working right and let me tell you I have had issues that have made me crazy.
The take up system...works great once you get the media attached to the take up roller. However, Getting it their requires a whole tactic and strategy that if you miss, you better have plenty of runway on your shop floor to lie your prints on to because it is awkward, and not as simple and user friendly as the roland. once you nail a system and procedure down that works for you, it gets better. Just don't miss.
Loading media... I have to restrain from using bad language here. Watch your fingers If you plan on keeping them, arm yourself with patience and get ready for media jams cause its gonna happen! The most ridiculous loading system ever. Not user friendly. You can't see your media going into the machine (yeah that's right) and if your edge is not perfectly straight and uncurled you will have loading failure and you will hate your life, period.
3. Running costs. So far, I can say that the ink consumption is the same. However being that the HP cartridges are 775 mil you are saving on ink costs because the price of the cartridges are relatively similar. As for power consumption it is hard to tell. I think the HP uses a little more. Not that much more. Not enough to make this a deciding factor in choosing one over the other. The HP runs on 210v vs roland 110v. So this definitely compensates for the extra power needed to run the heater. And yes , Heaters. The Latex 360 generates tons of heat. If you are in a confined and unventilated area using this machine you will need a shower. It gets hot! The roland uses 55C to post dry while the HP uses 120C. Double. As far as parts go. All the parts on the HP are consumable. The heads are 160$ to replace vs 2000$ on the roland. The maintenance tray is a couple of hundred bucks to replace vs all of the wipers, sponges cleaning liquids etc. The latex can sit unused for years and be put back into service for 1500$ because of this whereas the roland would require thousands of dollars to fix.
4. Cleanliness. The Latex is CLEAN. I mean really clean. No spray, no spills, no leaking. The machines is always super clean. The roland, well I have had my collector bottle overflow a couple of times and it isn't pretty. There is also always cleaning to do inside a solvent machine which is non existent in the latex machine.
5. Media Loading Versatility. Roland wins. I can easily load any size of material wether a roll or a piece. Not happening on the HP. You cannot load sheets on the HP. IT is a Roll Only machine. Also the roland can print or start print on any area you choose of the media. The HP only knows how to start from one edge and work its way to the other. It can't start anywhere in between like the roland can. No Basepoint option. The HP will waste lots of media because of this and because of the fact that the hp requires you to load the media onto the take up reel before beginning a print job. So 5-6 feet of waste per run, unless you are willing to tape or join a header piece to your roll which is time consuming a a royal pain. So if you do lots of short runs, you must take this into consideration.
6. Print Possibilities. The HP can print on many and more things than the roland. If you have heard that the excessive heat causes media warping,. That may have been true on the earlier models, but the new HP 360 has not given me any issues with warping at all. I have tested all the same materials I use on the roland and have had no problems. I have also tested printing on fabric with the latex and I can personally tell you the results area as beautiful as dye sub. Unbelievable vivid colours and quality.
7.Build Quality - Hands Down. Roland wins on all fronts. All metal, all solid and will stand up to whatever you put it it's path. A true tank. The latex is 90% plastic and you will realize that once you just try pushing these 2 machines across the shop floor on their wheels. The roland is built with very high quality materials and will stand the test of time for sure. Not sure this is the case with the 360, but time will tell.
So, in the end what do I think in a nutshell? I love them both. They both have a place in my business. The Roland allows me to print and cut. It also allows me to print white ink on clear substrates that we use for our glass applications. It allows me to feed short pieces of vinyle and frosted films and decorative films that I can't use on the latex nor cut. So for my glass side of the business it is a must for us. We would not be able to run our business with the latex alone. If all we did was wall murals and long runs we probably would make due with only the latex. After having experienced installing latex prints vs eco solvent prints, I can't imagine ever settling for eco solvent as my primary print type ever again. If you are sticker shop go with the roland, if you are printing long runs and multiple panels on a daily basis - go latex. If you can afford and justify the investment, get both. I think that if Roland would come out with instant dry technology and extreme scratch and scuff resistant inks like hp, they would have the ultimate machine and technology. They would have the upper hand, they would definitely have my business. The only reason I bought the HP was for the ink technology which was the greatest benefit to our type of business and immediate needs. I don't regret my purchase, but I will never get rid of my Roland. Just standing by to see what roland will come up with next to make a comeback as the great they once were. Because they are loosing tons of market share. Wether they admit to it or not.
I hope this has been helpful for those looking into switching from eco-solvent or even looking into making a first purchase. Thanks for reading and I would be more than glad to answer any questions! I have attached a picture of both my printers so that you can see my setup, and believe that this review is truly unbiased and for the good of all members on here. Please feel free to check out our website www.decomurale.ca and our Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/decomurale.ca to see what we are all about. Cheers!
We are a wall mural company and window film company. We have been using Roland printers since 2005. I have sworn by these machines and their performance for years. Until 3 months ago we only used a roland XR-640 for our print needs. What led us to also purchasing a HP Latex 360 is the lack of pre pasted wallpaper products compatible with eco-solvent ink. Being a wall mural company we had to be able to offer true wallpaper products and not just wall vinyl for many reasons that I won't elaborate right now, but would gladly do so if anyone here has any questions... HP has a product that we were looking for. It is called HP PVC Free Wallpaper, and it is a great product. Our supplier said it would never work with eco- solvent, however we tested it anyways and got very good initial results. We were happy and very surprised that we could use our roland to print on the hp wallpaper and put our Latex shopping aside. However it wasn't until a month later that we realized that the residue glue and water which smeared the print during install would not vanish after cleaning with a warm, wet cloth as it should. The inks were never fully set on the wallpaper and remained fragile even thought the prints felt dry to the touch and looked great. So many of our installs had issues needing resolve, and the only way to resolve this was to buy a latex printer for printing on this product we committed to.
Just so you know, I had been approached by suppliers time and time again to get into the latex market, and I never gave it a thought. I loved my roland, I depended on roland, and I loved my roland. I really was just looking for wallpaper that could work with my XR640. Every one I spoke to thought the HP latex printers were built cheap, used way to much power and heat and had way to many unresolved issues. I read and heard so many bad things about these Latex machines and their problems that I felt I was buying one just to regret it later on because I had no choice. And of course, When I went to the roland website in hope they could offer me a solution, or that some new model was out that could answer my needs I only found Roland to be spending lots of marketing and money convincing people that Latex was bad and eco-solvent was good rather than come up with a solution to meet new demand.
So I gave in. I bought the HP Latex 360. Not the 330, nor the 310. I said if I am going to do this, I will put all of the chances on my side and buy the bomb.
And here is my take after 3 months and nearly 5000 linear feet of latex print on my 360 and still also using my Roland XR-640.
1. Lets get to it, Print Quality. Hands down the Latex wins. The colours, the finish and the durability. Wow! I mean Wow! Banding is non existant, but most of all, for anyone who has had a busy shop and been forced into installing freshly printed eco-solvent graphics within 24 hours of drying will tell you that it is a pain in the a$$! They scratch! They curl! They are stretchy and they peel! I know that you are not supposed to, and we all say we don't. But when doing commercial work with strict deadlines, and a panel installation fails and your installer asks you for a replacement ''right now'', you just do it cause you have no choice. Well with the latex, the prints come out DRY! I mean cooked! Even after having done scratch and scuff tests with eco-solvent panels that have dried for over a week vs. freshly printed graphics that have just come out of the 360, The latex prints were stronger, nicer and much, much more resistant to scuffs and scratches. Their is an optimiser ink (OP cartridge) on the latex printer which acts as a clear coat which the roland does not have which I believe is the real reason behind this. But in any case, well worth it!
2. Technology- The HP wins. The latex 360 is a fully automated machine. Everything is automatic. Loading substrate, checking skew and offset, creating profiles, the take up system, the 8 inch touchscreen interface, the internet connectivity, etc. etc. I mean your miles ahead of anything roland has to offer.
I am not saying the HP Technology is perfect of course, I'm just saying there is so much more of it. The more options the more chances of things not working right and let me tell you I have had issues that have made me crazy.
The take up system...works great once you get the media attached to the take up roller. However, Getting it their requires a whole tactic and strategy that if you miss, you better have plenty of runway on your shop floor to lie your prints on to because it is awkward, and not as simple and user friendly as the roland. once you nail a system and procedure down that works for you, it gets better. Just don't miss.
Loading media... I have to restrain from using bad language here. Watch your fingers If you plan on keeping them, arm yourself with patience and get ready for media jams cause its gonna happen! The most ridiculous loading system ever. Not user friendly. You can't see your media going into the machine (yeah that's right) and if your edge is not perfectly straight and uncurled you will have loading failure and you will hate your life, period.
3. Running costs. So far, I can say that the ink consumption is the same. However being that the HP cartridges are 775 mil you are saving on ink costs because the price of the cartridges are relatively similar. As for power consumption it is hard to tell. I think the HP uses a little more. Not that much more. Not enough to make this a deciding factor in choosing one over the other. The HP runs on 210v vs roland 110v. So this definitely compensates for the extra power needed to run the heater. And yes , Heaters. The Latex 360 generates tons of heat. If you are in a confined and unventilated area using this machine you will need a shower. It gets hot! The roland uses 55C to post dry while the HP uses 120C. Double. As far as parts go. All the parts on the HP are consumable. The heads are 160$ to replace vs 2000$ on the roland. The maintenance tray is a couple of hundred bucks to replace vs all of the wipers, sponges cleaning liquids etc. The latex can sit unused for years and be put back into service for 1500$ because of this whereas the roland would require thousands of dollars to fix.
4. Cleanliness. The Latex is CLEAN. I mean really clean. No spray, no spills, no leaking. The machines is always super clean. The roland, well I have had my collector bottle overflow a couple of times and it isn't pretty. There is also always cleaning to do inside a solvent machine which is non existent in the latex machine.
5. Media Loading Versatility. Roland wins. I can easily load any size of material wether a roll or a piece. Not happening on the HP. You cannot load sheets on the HP. IT is a Roll Only machine. Also the roland can print or start print on any area you choose of the media. The HP only knows how to start from one edge and work its way to the other. It can't start anywhere in between like the roland can. No Basepoint option. The HP will waste lots of media because of this and because of the fact that the hp requires you to load the media onto the take up reel before beginning a print job. So 5-6 feet of waste per run, unless you are willing to tape or join a header piece to your roll which is time consuming a a royal pain. So if you do lots of short runs, you must take this into consideration.
6. Print Possibilities. The HP can print on many and more things than the roland. If you have heard that the excessive heat causes media warping,. That may have been true on the earlier models, but the new HP 360 has not given me any issues with warping at all. I have tested all the same materials I use on the roland and have had no problems. I have also tested printing on fabric with the latex and I can personally tell you the results area as beautiful as dye sub. Unbelievable vivid colours and quality.
7.Build Quality - Hands Down. Roland wins on all fronts. All metal, all solid and will stand up to whatever you put it it's path. A true tank. The latex is 90% plastic and you will realize that once you just try pushing these 2 machines across the shop floor on their wheels. The roland is built with very high quality materials and will stand the test of time for sure. Not sure this is the case with the 360, but time will tell.
So, in the end what do I think in a nutshell? I love them both. They both have a place in my business. The Roland allows me to print and cut. It also allows me to print white ink on clear substrates that we use for our glass applications. It allows me to feed short pieces of vinyle and frosted films and decorative films that I can't use on the latex nor cut. So for my glass side of the business it is a must for us. We would not be able to run our business with the latex alone. If all we did was wall murals and long runs we probably would make due with only the latex. After having experienced installing latex prints vs eco solvent prints, I can't imagine ever settling for eco solvent as my primary print type ever again. If you are sticker shop go with the roland, if you are printing long runs and multiple panels on a daily basis - go latex. If you can afford and justify the investment, get both. I think that if Roland would come out with instant dry technology and extreme scratch and scuff resistant inks like hp, they would have the ultimate machine and technology. They would have the upper hand, they would definitely have my business. The only reason I bought the HP was for the ink technology which was the greatest benefit to our type of business and immediate needs. I don't regret my purchase, but I will never get rid of my Roland. Just standing by to see what roland will come up with next to make a comeback as the great they once were. Because they are loosing tons of market share. Wether they admit to it or not.
I hope this has been helpful for those looking into switching from eco-solvent or even looking into making a first purchase. Thanks for reading and I would be more than glad to answer any questions! I have attached a picture of both my printers so that you can see my setup, and believe that this review is truly unbiased and for the good of all members on here. Please feel free to check out our website www.decomurale.ca and our Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/decomurale.ca to see what we are all about. Cheers!
