Roland SP300v Head Soak Question

[xxxmain]

Hi everyone! Quick question... without boring with details of the issue (which may come up later if this doesn't work), I think I need an overnight head soak on my Roland SP300v. I know to clamp off the drain line, fill the caps with Roland cleaning solution, and raise the caps against the heads for a 24 hour soak... but the problem I'm having is when I attempt a long soak, inevitably one of the ink colors starts running back up through the lines of the other shared ink color for each head (black runs back into the cyan or magenta runs back into the yellow, or vice versa). I assume this happens because my ink cartridges are all at different levels and they're trying to equalize? My question is, can I clamp off each of the 4 incoming ink lines to the dampers to prevent this? Of all my reading of head soaks, nobody is mentioning this problem but it almost always happens to me when I attempt a long head soak. Or, does this ink running backwards through the lines indicate a different problem that I should be looking into?

Thanks awesome forum!

 

[Zoogee World]

I could be wrong, but when I've had this happen in the past and it's happened a couple of times over the years, it turned out to be a tiny crack in the manifold where the dampers connect to the head. Depending how old the manifolds are, there could be tiny cracks. Might also be good to change the dampers if it's been a while.

 

[Solventinkjet]

If ink is receding back up the tube, you most likely need new dampers and/or the o-ring seal between the damper and ink line is bad. The dampers are responsible for regulating the pressure in the ink line.

 

[xxxmain]

Amazing! Thank you both Zoogee World and Solventinkjet... I don't have manifolds but I'll change all dampers right away and give it a try. I love this forum!

 

[cornholio]

This is normal behaviour of the system.
It also happens, when there is a pump defect and the cap isn't emptied properly.
I'd just pull the cartridges, this way the pressure should be equal.
I seriously doubt the usefulness of a 24h soak anyway. If it doesn't get better after a one hour soak, chances are low in my opinion.
I service Rolands professionally for over 25 years.

 

[xxxmain]

Update and more help please – I changed all four dampers and both caps (since I was in there anyway). I don't have manifolds so I couldn't change those but I did look at them closely and didn't see any obvious cracks (image attached if I missed something or please direct where specifically to look). I clamped off the drain tube and did a 12-hour head soak and sure enough the cyan drained backwards into the black ink. Funnily enough the magenta and yellow did not drain backwards at all.

All my printing issues seem to be coming from the black/cyan head (blurry prints and some banding). I've done all the standard checks like clean the strip and run all of the test prints in Service Mode. It's not a bi-directional issue as I've done testing with both bi- and uni-directional with no improvement. The basic test print shows two strange heavier areas of cyan bars and I forget which test print the black “T” shape above is, but it seems to have two messy sections as well.

I've attached the spot test prints showing the cyan mostly, but also black, with a messy edge (and some hard-to-see banding in the cyan). I have done a thorough manual cleaning and there are no hairs or foreign objects on the heads that could be contacting the media and causing the mess at the ends. I've also attached a flames graphic showing minor banding in the blue but not with any of the other colors so it seems the banding isn't an overall printer issue. Could it be that some of the cyan jets are clogged slightly? But I figured a 12-hour flush would have helped if that was the case (there was no visible improvement after the soak) .

I'm wondering what are next steps for me? Should I order some manifolds and try those? Should I change the lines and o-rings from the ink cartridges to the dampers (the o-rings looked good to the naked eye when changing the dampers)? There is no obvious head damage and the problem creeped up on me. What else could cause these type of test print messes? Would a leak in the lines leading up to the dampers cause these type of test prints?

This printer has never had a head strike or had media caught up in the heads or anything I can think of that would have caused physical damage to the heads. Any and all ideas welcome, I'm not sure what to try next.

 

[Jim Hancock]

When you replace the dampers, you should always clean the manifold post with a foam swab moistened with cleaning solution before installing the new damper. I noticed what looks like some possible dried ink near the bottom of the post. This could lead to an air leak where the dried ink doesn't allow the damper O-ring to seal completely. This doesn't necessarily relate to your ink drawback issue, but just something I saw.

I'd just pull the cartridges, this way the pressure should be equal.

Did you pull the ink cartridges during the head soak, as suggested?

 

[xxxmain]

Hey Jim, ok great... I will clean the manifold posts to ensure a good seal. Is it ok to remove the new dampers I installed to clean the posts and then re-install them? Or are they a one-time install that should be replaced once removed again?

I did not pull the ink cartridges during the head soak because I had already started the soak at 6:30pm last night and didn't see cornholio's post until this morning when I was already 12 hours into the soak (and the ink had already drawn back). But I will definitely pull them for future soaks... which could be soon if you think I should do a longer soak to try to clean out the heads more??

This original post was about head soaking tips and drawback because I thought a soak would solve the cyan/black problems shown in the images above... but all of this was less about the soak and more to solve the print issues. After 12 hour soak (with drawback, but still a good soak) the problem still exists so I'm looking for next steps or ideas on the cyan banding and messed up test prints. If a good 24 hour soak is wise, I'll pull the cartridges and do that. Otherwise, any thoughts on the cyan/black issues? Would a breach in the seals/o-rings/lines from dampers to cartridges cause the sort of print issues shown in my pics? I will address good seals regardless... I just don't want to concentrate on changing manifolds etc. if that wouldn't even potentially solve the issues (plus I've never changed manifolds and they look a little scary, but I can if recommended).

 

[cornholio]

I'm pretty sure the only remedy will be a head replacement.

 

[damonCA21]

I would try changing the manifold on the black / cyan head first. Whatever you do though don't buy the cheap chinese copy ones as they are crap, get a proper OEM one ( you can get them on ebay ) ! Also get new o-rings and nuts for the dampers. The leak is often at the o ring that seals the ink line onto the damper at the top, rather than the internal o ring in the damper itself.

If this doesn't solve it then it could be a leak inside the head, but this isn't that common, but would mean replacing the head

 

[xxxmain]

Ok, awesome... thanks for the help everyone. I'm about to order a bunch of parts to try (o-rings, manifold, and probably a head to hold in inventory just in case).

Quick question, and this may be silly. Is there a process to remove ink cartridges that are going to be re-installed? I searched but can't find a simple answer. Do I just power off, remove cartridge, do my work, then stuff the cartridge back in and restart the machine?

 

[damonCA21]

Ok, awesome... thanks for the help everyone. I'm about to order a bunch of parts to try (o-rings, manifold, and probably a head to hold in inventory just in case).

Quick question, and this may be silly. Is there a process to remove ink cartridges that are going to be re-installed? I searched but can't find a simple answer. Do I just power off, remove cartridge, do my work, then stuff the cartridge back in and restart the machine?

Yes, just remove them and put them back in when you are done. Sometimes you will find the printer will register them as being full again, but it will still give you the warning when they are actually getting empty

 

[xxxmain]

Great, thanks damonCA21... I'll post my results once solved.

Cheers!

 

[DiS]

I have had this issue on my sp300v, it turned out an internal leak or break in the internal printhead, replaced and all fine.. would not print properly
in high quality mode as ink crossed contaminated.. in fast print gave the same overspray in black like your picture.
test print was fine. may be a similar issue.

 

[netsol]

This is normal behaviour of the system.
It also happens, when there is a pump defect and the cap isn't emptied properly.
I'd just pull the cartridges, this way the pressure should be equal.
I seriously doubt the usefulness of a 24h soak anyway. If it doesn't get better after a one hour soak, chances are low in my opinion.
I service Rolands professionally for over 25 years.

i don't want to sound like a broken record, but, it is worth trying a 5%to 10% solution of acetone in the cleaning fluid (AT YOUR OWN RISK) followed by enough cleaning cycles to be sure the acetone has gone past the pumps into waste container. we have had very good luck with this DEPENDING ON HOW BAD THE PRINTHEAD IS

 

[xxxmain]

Netsol... I would like to try this! Would you please talk me through the process a bit? I mix up my 90/10 cleaning solution/acetone... then what? How do I connect the cleaning solution mix to the printer so I can use the cleaning cycles? Or are you pushing or pulling the solution through the heads with a syringe? Where and how do you connect? Thanks!