Roland VG to VG2 Firmware removes service mode, end user access deleted??

ProPDF

New Member
So word on the street and hopefully RolandDGA can get on here and clarify is that the new VG2 Firmware upgrade or update from VG to VG2 is now removing service mode for the end user?? And there is no going back or downgrading.

RolandDGA are you locking owners out of their machine with this upgrade and forcing them to have the Peck2 tool in addition to a licensed technician with current credentials that get updated every 30 days to access the machine to perform work?

If you are locking people out of their machines and forcing them to only use your technicians does this get removed the day the machine is out of warranty allowing the end user to complete their own repairs?

Are you notifying or informing customers you are doing this before the upgrade is executed so they know what they are actually consenting to?

I really hope I am wrong here. Anyone else know about this?

[HASHTAG]#RolandDGA[/HASHTAG]
 

Scott at Roland

Merchant Member
Hello PerfectPDF – What you are saying is essentially correct. When updating a VG to the new ink type, the printer will only support the new Peck2 utility, and the old Peck will no longer function. Peck2 is a more powerful utility for our technicians and certification is required in order to access it. To be clear, Roland has never authorized entry to the Service Mode on our printers. This is because there are many controls and settings within the Service Mode that can significantly alter the functionality of the printer and cause the printer to provide incorrect data to a technician if it is altered. Please understand that this isn’t an attempt to lock people out of their machines. Since we have always protected Service Mode on our devices, it was not necessary to notify users of the change. If you have more questions about this, please feel free to PM me here and I will do my best to answer them, or find someone in Irvine that can help.
 

Signed Out

New Member
Hello PerfectPDF – What you are saying is essentially correct. When updating a VG to the new ink type, the printer will only support the new Peck2 utility, and the old Peck will no longer function. Peck2 is a more powerful utility for our technicians and certification is required in order to access it. To be clear, Roland has never authorized entry to the Service Mode on our printers. This is because there are many controls and settings within the Service Mode that can significantly alter the functionality of the printer and cause the printer to provide incorrect data to a technician if it is altered. Please understand that this isn’t an attempt to lock people out of their machines. Since we have always protected Service Mode on our devices, it was not necessary to notify users of the change. If you have more questions about this, please feel free to PM me here and I will do my best to answer them, or find someone in Irvine that can help.

Sure sounds like a lockout to me. Will the end users be given access once warranty expires?

I guess when new printer sales come to a halt, the next step is to force as many of your current customers to pay excessive prices to maintain their equipment. It's a shame, we love our xj540 has been a tank for 9+ years. If we had been forced to pay $500+ every time a belt needed tightening or head alignments, etc. we'd of traded it in years ago. I guess Roland figured that out too. They aren't the only one, apparently nobody can get into the service mode for the epson sure colors, luckilly we haven't had to yet... Not sure how hp or other manus handle this, pretty sure hp is on lockdown too.
 

Scott at Roland

Merchant Member
Sure sounds like a lockout to me. Will the end users be given access once warranty expires?

I guess when new printer sales come to a halt, the next step is to force as many of your current customers to pay excessive prices to maintain their equipment. It's a shame, we love our xj540 has been a tank for 9+ years. If we had been forced to pay $500+ every time a belt needed tightening or head alignments, etc. we'd of traded it in years ago. I guess Roland figured that out too. They aren't the only one, apparently nobody can get into the service mode for the epson sure colors, luckilly we haven't had to yet... Not sure how hp or other manus handle this, pretty sure hp is on lockdown too.
 

Scott at Roland

Merchant Member
Signed Out – I understand your point here. But please keep in mind that Roland has never allowed access to the Service Mode. We do not sell parts to end users, only to authorized dealers. Our printers have always been protected in Service Mode.

I have been with Roland for many years, and much of that time I spent in the service department. I know for sure that this policy was not meant to make life difficult for our customers, but a way that we hope to help improve the condition and longevity of our devices. Every person at Roland is committed to improving the quality of ownership of our devices and this change is no different.

Now, all the above notwithstanding, I truly do understand your argument. And while I do not have any ability to change the current process, I do have the ability to pass along information. And I am happy to pass these concerns up the “food chain”. So, while I cannot promise anything will change, I can promise that the conversation will take place.

Finally, I am impressed, but not really surprised that your XJ is still cranking after all this time. I remember those printers well and they were beasts.
 

Mainframe

New Member
Will I be able to change cap tops and a printer head by myself? Or will I need a certified tech to do it? Not sure I understand all that is covered or should I say "locked out" after an upgrade.

Not to highjack the thread, I am wondering what difference is the new ink? is it as durable as the original? when I print a banner on my VG 540, I can flip the banner on it's face on the table and hem and grommet it right away. I could never have done this with my VP, the prints on this thing are bullet proof, never do I scratch them.
 

PITBULL DESIGN

New Member
Signed Out – I understand your point here. But please keep in mind that Roland has never allowed access to the Service Mode. We do not sell parts to end users, only to authorized dealers. Our printers have always been protected in Service Mode.

I have been with Roland for many years, and much of that time I spent in the service department. I know for sure that this policy was not meant to make life difficult for our customers, but a way that we hope to help improve the condition and longevity of our devices. Every person at Roland is committed to improving the quality of ownership of our devices and this change is no different.

Now, all the above notwithstanding, I truly do understand your argument. And while I do not have any ability to change the current process, I do have the ability to pass along information. And I am happy to pass these concerns up the “food chain”. So, while I cannot promise anything will change, I can promise that the conversation will take place.

Finally, I am impressed, but not really surprised that your XJ is still cranking after all this time. I remember those printers well and they were beasts.


This is pretty irritating to say the least. I've had my problem child VG for almost three years in December. At that time the warranty is up. This machine has been nothing but problems pretty much out of the gate and I wont get into all of it but many times, my supplier and Roland tech actually have me go into service mode to solve fix issues myself. Especially damper drain and fills since I have an ongoing issue with dull colors and drop out and color shift with long prints. I have recently been told by Roland reps that the new ink should help solve a lot of my issues. Cool, but I've had 7 print heads done from December 2018 to June 2019 (no they are not from head strikes). I know this POS is going to need another head or other work at some point. I've always done my own repair work on my Rolands. So what do I do? I want new inks but not at the cost of service mode since my warranty will be up. I really have no interest at this time in upgrading to a VG2 after the headache this has been. Nor am I going to pay for a tech that is barely mare qualified than I to do it.
 
We have stuck by rolands side for 10+ years and that loyalty is failing by the day. They are clearly pushing quantity over quality, releasing machines like the vg that clearly weren’t tested thoroughly, only to quickly release a vg2 to try to fix all of the problems they encountered. Their pro 4 machine is now over 6 years on the market and there’s no sign of a new machine on the way, even if it was, I just couldn’t trust it. They now make entry level T-shirt printers that look like they should be sold in michaels craft store and have forgotten their core sign printing customers. We have moved on to other manufacturers for our wide format needs because we can’t trust Roland any longer to support their core sign customers. It’s really sad honestly. Now to lock users out of service mode that’s clearly another money grab when their sales are falling due to poor machine quality, shows what this company has become. We miss you old Roland, but it’s time for us to pass the torch to a company that cares about our success not just about selling us a machine.
 

Scott at Roland

Merchant Member
We have stuck by rolands side for 10+ years and that loyalty is failing by the day. They are clearly pushing quantity over quality, releasing machines like the vg that clearly weren’t tested thoroughly, only to quickly release a vg2 to try to fix all of the problems they encountered. Their pro 4 machine is now over 6 years on the market and there’s no sign of a new machine on the way, even if it was, I just couldn’t trust it. They now make entry level T-shirt printers that look like they should be sold in michaels craft store and have forgotten their core sign printing customers. We have moved on to other manufacturers for our wide format needs because we can’t trust Roland any longer to support their core sign customers. It’s really sad honestly. Now to lock users out of service mode that’s clearly another money grab when their sales are falling due to poor machine quality, shows what this company has become. We miss you old Roland, but it’s time for us to pass the torch to a company that cares about our success not just about selling us a machine.
Dude! It's me
Will I be able to change cap tops and a printer head by myself? Or will I need a certified tech to do it? Not sure I understand all that is covered or should I say "locked out" after an upgrade.

Not to highjack the thread, I am wondering what difference is the new ink? is it as durable as the original? when I print a banner on my VG 540, I can flip the banner on it's face on the table and hem and grommet it right away. I could never have done this with my VP, the prints on this thing are bullet proof, never do I scratch them.
 

Scott at Roland

Merchant Member
Will I be able to change cap tops and a printer head by myself? Or will I need a certified tech to do it? Not sure I understand all that is covered or should I say "locked out" after an upgrade.

Not to highjack the thread, I am wondering what difference is the new ink? is it as durable as the original? when I print a banner on my VG 540, I can flip the banner on it's face on the table and hem and grommet it right away. I could never have done this with my VP, the prints on this thing are bullet proof, never do I scratch them.

Ok - sorry if I hit the wrong reply button a couple time and messed up this string. But I did want to respond to you on this. This new utility will not prevent you from doing "user level" service on your printer, like cap tops, wipers, cutter protection strips, etc. The Peck2 utility was developed to help us find ways to keep our printers performing at the highest possible levels. We are working toward features like predictive maintenance and things like that. And the Peck2 was a start down that road. It's not my place to know all the details on this utility, but going forward, we hope that it helps us better service the machines.

As far as the new inks are concerned - they are significantly improved, in my opinion - particularly when it comes to vehicle graphics. We have 3M and Avery certifications for vehicle wraps with the new ink.

I am taking the liberty of posting a link to the VG2, which has more information about the inks.

https://www.rolanddga.com/products/printers/truevis-vg2-printer-cutters

As far as higher level service activity is concerned, you should all know that this string has prompted conversations about warranty vs out of warranty and the implications for our customers. I will make sure to revisit and post any developments on this string, when they are available.
 

InkjetAuction

New Member
The only issue that I have with the front panel service mode being removed in the VG to TR2 ink upgrade is that there was no informed consent. Additional changes to the locking mechanism were being made without the user's consent...AFTER the initial purchase was made.
What if you had decided that a VG purchase was good for you, since you knew that you could access the Service Menu and keep the machine going for short money. Then you do the upgrade and find out that you are locked out. It's a little sketchy.

I broke the story in the Facebook Roland Digital Printer Owners group (the big group)... and wrote an article which is posted on LinkedIn.

Again, I feel that there needs to be a change in the service access. I understand the necessity to protect the machine from folks fiddling with it while the company is on the hook for warranty service... but to think that you would need a service call for a simple head alignment (which can put a printer down and out) is insane. There needs to be a away to protect the machine under warranty, but then provide the user a code that would unlock the machine and void all warranty after the initial limited warranty period has passed. Shouldn't the user have the right to repair the machine that they own?

Anyway, you can read my article about this craziness here:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/rola...ut-access-service-mode-truvis-ernie-viveiros/

The facebook group is here. We have about 2,200 member right now. You do have to request access... but I will approve it ASAP:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1646056118979869/
 

TimToad

Active Member
Bye-Bye Roland, and I was just about to buy 6 printers. That was close. THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!
Do you do major, potentially damaging repairs on any of your cars or trucks that are still under warranty?

If most of the major printer brands are employing similar limits to end user access while the printer is under warranty, what brands are we left to choose from?
 

netsol

New Member
tim,
i really didn't have an opinion on this until your comment.
if i do a potentially damaging repair to my car, my printer OR ANYTHING ELSE it is at my risk & i void the warranty. (you learn this, before lunch, on the first day in law school)

seriously, we fought the right to repair battle with sony in 1978, i believe. they said we weren't authorized to do an out of warranty repair & they would only sell circuit boards and major assemblies to authorized service facilities. they were wrong...

the day you give roland the big pile of money & they give you the printer that choice should no longer be theirs to make
 

InkjetAuction

New Member
Don't mistake the issue...

It's about choice. If I want to work on my turbo diesel on my new VW... then I can. I may wreck the warranty. That's my choice. But why would I do that under warranty?

The issue is about post warranty work.
You'll have to call for dealer service. And they will use over priced dealer parts. And so often the "tech" is under experienced. (I had to show a Mimaki tech a few weeks ago that there was a difference between mΩ and MΩ on his DMM.)

Don't you think that you should have the right to repair the machine that you own?

You won't even have the opportunity to do a simple adjustment like a head alignment without a service visit. You will not be able to access the alignment tests needed to make the repair.
Head alignments are critical... especially since Roland has gone back to a multi-head system. Looking forward to a head strike costing you a $500 for a service visit... for a simple half hour adjustment?

My junior operators can implement a head alignment on my HP Latex 360 and 560. That's a user function -- with automatic and manual implementation.

Still love the Rolands. But something needs to change. It's an old ideology. I wish that they (Roland) would become a leader here and develop a modern system that protects them while they are on the hook for warranty service --- and allows the end users to repair the printers should the choose to. I truly believe that users will choose to purchase parts from Roland over the no-name Chinesium products...even at premium cost.

Kind of like what HP has done. They control the parts. Not the access so much (it's an open lock like Roland used to be).

Rant over.

~E
 

netsol

New Member
inkjet
i think it goes farther than that
roland will be able to refuse to perform certain repairs, requiring fixtures and DEALER ONLY equipment and software. this is becoming an issue with car dealers.

end result, when manufacturer says END OF LIFE, it really means that
 
Top