Signed Contract

[Cove Signs]

Hello,
I've been in the sign business for almost 20 years. Been lucky enough to get paid to do what I do without many problems. It seems more and more lately like I may need to use some sort of contract between my customers and I. Especially where an installation may be involved. Is there a standard contract being used out there? Or maybe a software or website that can be adapted to work for our business?

Thanks

 

[Rick]

What are the sizes of the contracts?
What type of client? Client, contractor, builder....

There are standard contracts, but they usually have language specific to licensed contractor requirements and terms spelled out by builders and general contractors.

 

[Decal Dennis]

I haven't used any contracts, but only had one problem so far.

Let a customer put half down on a sign/install and pay X amount of dollars a month til it was paid off, they paid every month for awhile, then 2 months went by with no payment and they wouldn't return calls, so I jump in the sign truck and head out there. I pull in their parking lot by the sign and start setting up the truck and putting the outriggers into position.....ready to repo the sign. They came running out wondering what was going on....I'm here to repo my sign for non payment, you are 2 months behind. They said we will get caught up with you right now!!!, I said ok, but there is just one catch.....this truck costs $195.00 per hour with a 2 hour minimum, so you owe me for the trip out here (actual time was less than and hour out there and back), so you owe me an additional $390.00.....but as long as you promise to keep current with the payments from now on, I will only charge you for 1 hour on the truck. They paid and kept current.

 

[humble sign co]

In the sign biz, we have a unique benefit. The product is accessible and always right where we left it. Although we have threatened to repo signs numerous times, we've never had to do it. When phone calls and emails aren't effective... Here's what we do: Send them an email and a certified snail mail with the unpaid contract, completion photos and copies of unanswered emails to the store manager stating you will be repossessing the signage for lack of payment, give a time frame/deadline of when you will be removing the sign. Notarize the documents (it just looks official). This is almost always effective without having to send a truck out. If the delinquent client is an out-of-state sign co, send it to them and cc their customer! Works every time.
Be ware though, this is offensive and a relationship killer, make sure you have exhausted all other efforts and spoken to the owner directly. One time the payment was in the mail box on the day we sent the certified letter!

 

[spectrum maine]

in many states repo-ing a sign is illegal. you might be liable for loss of business. Once it is attached to building it is a fixture.I put in my contract & on invoice "sign is property of spectrum signs until final payment is received."
usually if i repo, it gets chopped into a 100 pieces & put in the dumpster (meaning i am through with the bull sh+t.)

 

[Gino]

Wow.... some of you guys sound like you put more effort into collecting your monies, than the sign itself. Sounds bass/ackwards to me.

To the OP : Why do you think you need a contract for installations more so, than the sign itself ??
What kind of amounts are these projects for ?? $500. $12,000. $85,000 ??

To keep everyone on the same page, you need a page from which to begin. This is called a quote.... anyway, in our shop it is called a quote and when signed, dated and a required deposit is received, it serves as a legal contract and way of doing business. In the quote, you must outline things like what is being paid for, who is responsible for obtaining permits, how much this will cost and how much that will cost. If logos or artwork is being created, how much it will cost for the customer to possess it. In other words, no hidden clauses, no hidden fees or anything of the sort. That is not an honest way of doing business. Once the customer signs this, it is a sealed deal.

Remember, this is your contract, so don't be making concessions or you are voiding your own contract. From $100 job, to a $250,000 job.... this piece of paper keeps everyone honest, unless they have some really good lawyers and can prove you incompetent. After 20 years, I highly doubt that will happen.

 

[Cove Signs]

What are the sizes of the contracts?
What type of client? Client, contractor, builder....

There are standard contracts, but they usually have language specific to licensed contractor requirements and terms spelled out by builders and general contractors.

I guess I am just looking for a simple contract between my business owning customers and myself. Needs to spell out payments and terms, etc

 

[Cove Signs]

Wow.... some of you guys sound like you put more effort into collecting your monies, than the sign itself. Sounds bass/ackwards to me.

To the OP : Why do you think you need a contract for installations more so, than the sign itself ??
What kind of amounts are these projects for ?? $500. $12,000. $85,000 ??

To keep everyone on the same page, you need a page from which to begin. This is called a quote.... anyway, in our shop it is called a quote and when signed, dated and a required deposit is received, it serves as a legal contract and way of doing business. In the quote, you must outline things like what is being paid for, who is responsible for obtaining permits, how much this will cost and how much that will cost. If logos or artwork is being created, how much it will cost for the customer to possess it. In other words, no hidden clauses, no hidden fees or anything of the sort. That is not an honest way of doing business. Once the customer signs this, it is a sealed deal.

Remember, this is your contract, so don't be making concessions or you are voiding your own contract. From $100 job, to a $250,000 job.... this piece of paper keeps everyone honest, unless they have some really good lawyers and can prove you incompetent. After 20 years, I highly doubt that will happen.

Great advice. Thanks for the help

 

[Cove Signs]

I haven't used any contracts, but only had one problem so far.

Let a customer put half down on a sign/install and pay X amount of dollars a month til it was paid off, they paid every month for awhile, then 2 months went by with no payment and they wouldn't return calls, so I jump in the sign truck and head out there. I pull in their parking lot by the sign and start setting up the truck and putting the outriggers into position.....ready to repo the sign. They came running out wondering what was going on....I'm here to repo my sign for non payment, you are 2 months behind. They said we will get caught up with you right now!!!, I said ok, but there is just one catch.....this truck costs $195.00 per hour with a 2 hour minimum, so you owe me for the trip out here (actual time was less than and hour out there and back), so you owe me an additional $390.00.....but as long as you promise to keep current with the payments from now on, I will only charge you for 1 hour on the truck. They paid and kept current.

Good way to recover post job. Hopefully with the proper contract this action will never been needed.

 

[Billct2]

Yea, what Gino said. We made our own form 20 years ago and still use it. And also know that once the sign is delivered you don't own it anymore, at least not in this state. As a matter of fact the client may not even own it once it's installed on a building if they are a tenant. So if there is any doubt in you mind have final payment due on delivery.

 

[equippaint]

If you need a contract, have a local attorney write it as each state and municipality has different regulations. A generic contract may get you screwed.

 

[Gino]

Getting an attorney to look over your contract to make corrections or worded properly, might be a good idea, but no need to pay one to write what anyone with a little common sense can write. What you really need an attorney for would be to tell you, you can't put things in your contract that the signs still belong to you after you hang them and you will retrieve them if not paid and other stupid sh!t such as that.

You can't make up special rules to meet your special needs if you cannot do your job right.

Being in business, means being a business person. Not some dolt who can put vinyl on a board or truck and can't conduct a lick of business like collecting his/her money.

You get a signed and dated contract with the appropriate deposit and the remainder when it's finished. You are not a bank, so don't extend terms, until you can afford to do so.

If installations are a problem, perhaps there are extenuating circumstances, but if you are indeed doing installations, you need to be fully insured for whatever may happen and perform the work as a professional. No shoddy work or half-a$$ed structures leaning here or there.

 

[TammieH]

Half down, balance on the day of the install...Unless they are a regular customer and they pay regular (30 days)
Other than that, No Exceptions!

 

[equippaint]

Gino I have to respectfully disagree with the common sense thing, that may work in small claims but not in circuit court. The money collection portion is only a small part of a contract.
You need to spell out venue, no jury trial or arbitration only, your limits on liability, warranty length, no consequential damages etc. 99.9% of the time the contract will not matter but take 1 accident or even a spelling mistake wherein the hands of the wrong customer with the right attorney and it will cost you big. If you improperly word it, they will pick it apart and invalidate the contract.

Insurance will not pay your legal fees and will only cover up to your limits, judgements over that will come out of your pocket.
Ive seen it, you can be liable for products used in an installation that fail even if you did not make them and installed them correctly. Burn a building down and see how far your 1mil policy gets you. It may even come 10 years down the road.
Spend the $500-1000 one time and get it done right. Its no guarantee either but a lot better than some crap you typed up in word.

 

[Big Rice Field]

I do not sell signs. I sell sign drawings. Getting businesses to pay for drawings depends on the ethics of the customer. Most of my clients pay, but I have one that still owes me $1535.00 and he is untrustworthy. I have had three bounced checks from him. It is frustrating.

 

[Gino]

Gino I have to respectfully disagree with the common sense thing, that may work in small claims but not in circuit court. The money collection portion is only a small part of a contract.
You need to spell out venue, no jury trial or arbitration only, your limits on liability, warranty length, no consequential damages etc. 99.9% of the time the contract will not matter but take 1 accident or even a spelling mistake wherein the hands of the wrong customer with the right attorney and it will cost you big. If you improperly word it, they will pick it apart and invalidate the contract.

Insurance will not pay your legal fees and will only cover up to your limits, judgements over that will come out of your pocket.
Ive seen it, you can be liable for products used in an installation that fail even if you did not make them and installed them correctly. Burn a building down and see how far your 1mil policy gets you. It may even come 10 years down the road.
Spend the $500-1000 one time and get it done right. Its no guarantee either but a lot better than some crap you typed up in word.

No disrespect taken, but if you read it a little more closely, I said an attorney would be a good idea to have look over it and make sure everything is in proper order. You don't need an attorney to write the whole contract..... just proof it and make sure you didn't say any outlandish or illegal. Common sense is all you need to write these kinds of documents.

As for small claims courts or regular courts, the contract is binding, unless you have some illegal mumbo-jumbo in there that has nothing to do with a normal state of doing business.

Personally, grooming your customer base, getting rid of trouble makers, taking precautions upfront, producing and delivering a top notch product generally will not result in your kinda scenario. Someone falls off a crane or a letter fell off a wall and you have problems, but as long as you dotted all of your 'i's and crossed your 't's, your insurance will most likely cover you.

Burning a building down or some reasonable fact simile sound more like negligence and in that case, your contract won't help you and neither will your insurance.


Here's an interesting scenario for you. This past winter, some guy in a truck ran off the road, ran up my front lawn, took out a buncha bushes and some other things. I went down to confront the guy and he seemed upset, but totally rational. He said he would fix everything after the weekend, but he couldn't get his truck as it was hung up on some shrubs. He gave me his business card and cell number. Then, tow truck came and so did the cops. I didn't call them, but I guess they show up when a tow truck is called. Cops told me to go back up to my house and they'd take care of things. Next week came and I called this guy several times with no answers or return calls. About 2 weeks later, the police call me and ask some questions and then told me the guy has been in jail and will be for quite awhile. Huh ?? He was considered drunk. Great. Now, he can't fix what he damaged, so we had it taken care of and gave the bill to his insurance company. They informed us, they were not gonna pay, since he was drunk..... and they insured him for when he's sober. Now, who pays my damages ?? It's below my deductible. My wife followed up on it and kept getting a runaround. Finally, 2 weeks ago, she called our insurance company, threatened them and we got a check from the other guy's insurance company a few days later. Now, how does that work ??
Oh, and the guy is still in jail. He truck was considered totaled, too. In the dark, I didn't see his whole passenger side was gone and the entire front end was split in half. No wonder he couldn't get it out.