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So this happened yesterday...

Stacey K

I like making signs
Been working with a church to make a mission statement for their wall. It's 6 MONTHS of him going to meetings once a month, then changing the text, wait another month, change it again. Originally, they just wanted the vinyl then a couple months in wanted me to do it. He had sent me a photo of a sample he wanted and just said it's going on "a wall" and it was described as the vestibule...the room you gather before you enter the worship area. OK, I assumed this meant a regular wall and at head height so you could read it - like the sample he sent.

Well, I got there and it was the "wall" was actually above a 7-foot entrance to the worship area and they wanted it 2' above that so total height was lowest point 9', highest point 12' and up two flights of stairs. I had along my 6' ladder, my 4' ladder and my sitting stool which are always in my truck. Anyway, I told him I don't have the equipment along to install this and I was told this goes on a wall, not above a 7' entryway. He went and got a 12' ladder. Well, it didn't fit in the entry way decent where you could install this. I said this is a job where you need a mini scaffolding or something and all I have is a big 6' scaffolding. (and in my mind I'm thinking...I'm not dragging my 6' scaffolding up two flights of stairs for this little job no matter what you pay me). The guy was NOT happy. He demanded I bring back my scaffolding and do the job. I said, I'll have to get back to David (the guy that ordered it). And he told me to do some "negotiating".

Here's my negotiation...keep it for their troubles but I'm not installing it. Although I didn't ask more questions, I do feel like this was an important point left out when he asked me to install it. A lot of people don't have common sense so I get it and I should have told him to send me a photo of where it was going but again, this is 6 months in and I'm just so over this job to begin with, it just didn't cross my mind. I'm not buying a 9' ladder, not buying or renting mini scaffolding and NOT dragging my 6' scaffolding up two flights of stairs! My own fault and it sucks cuz it was a lot of time wasted.

Lesson #593 learned.

Here's the sample he sent me that goes "on a wall"
1763049461526.png
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Sometimes the installation will exceed the actual sign. If you have written instructions which you quoted on and now the parameters have changed/moved, it must be requoted. Just did that for a customer about a month ago and we just added a second invoice for their changing horses in the middle of the stream.
 
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Stacey K

I like making signs
I'm just going to walk away. I physically need help with the scaffolding carrying it up and down and in and out of my truck. It's the last thing my son wants to do on a Saturday morning for a few bucks.
 
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Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I'm just going to walk away. I physically need help with the scaffolding carrying it up and down and in and out of my truck. It's the last thing my son wants to do on a Saturday morning for a few bucks.
Good, tell them to go fuck themselves. If they're real Christians, they will forgive you.

People don't realize the business relationship is a two way street. I'm not working for someone that treats me bad or tries to get over on me.
 
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JBurton

Signtologist
I'd figure the church would have a youth group that would be pumped to haul some scaffolding. It must be one of those old folks churches? Mission statement, keep the status quo, etc.
 
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Stacey K

I like making signs
I'd figure the church would have a youth group that would be pumped to haul some scaffolding. It must be one of those old folks churches? Mission statement, keep the status quo, etc.
I think so too. His attitude was more of...I hired you to do a job, now do what you have to do to get it done. Kinda being a dick about it.
 
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EddieBS

New Member
We have a lot of stories with this kind of clients. I swear to my self over and over again, if the collaboration, the dialogue, the vibe is not ok with the client from the beginning it means the whole deal will go the same and troubles and frustration from both sides will arise. But most of the times I lie to myself and I say this client is different, but it turns out is always the same.
 
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signheremd

New Member
From his point of view, you are the expert and he doesn't realize that you wouldn't know what was needed for the install. So, though you are right, to him it looks like you are backing out of the agreement. Worth seeing it from his perspective. Now I can't imagine there are not volunteers that could help haul in scaffold to save the church money. As to quoting the install, we usually take a picture of the actual wall and mock up the lettering/sign - that prevents a case like this and allows us to quote a realistic install price. Maybe your original contact can help find a solution (labor to carry and set up scaffolding) so you can still complete the job? (Willing to bet the have lots of teenagers and some construction workers in the congregation.) Easiest lessons to learn are the hard ones... keep your chin up.
 
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d fleming

New Member
No thank you is always an acceptable answer. It's called a change order from the sample pic you sent. Requires re-quoting to make it worth your time, but as soon as someone gets snippy that isn't who I deal with I'm out. Churches and schools are notorious for too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.
 
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Gino

Premium Subscriber
They all have too many committees and if ONE person doesn't show up for this months meeting, it carries over.
 
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Stacey K

I like making signs
I sent an email to the contact yesterday late morning. I apologized it didn't work out and said I may have misunderstood the "wall" when we first spoke (6 months ago), told him they can keep the decals and I won't charge them for design or materials. I explained the install is out of my wheelhouse and gave the name of another local sign shop and sent him the PDF. No response.
 

JamesLam

New Member
Eventually we all end up in this kind of situation. Most here seem to agree that either walk away or re-price properly and let the client walk away.

I suggest that you don't look up and make eye contact and definitely don't wear a steel hat in a lightening storm for a while.
 
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Stacey K

I like making signs
They all have too many committees and if ONE person doesn't show up for this months meeting, it carries over.
That's what happened. First he gave me one mission statement and wanted XXX style. Wait a month. They changed the mission statement wording. Next month, they made another change of fonts. Next month, change again. This went on for 6 months.

Maybe it's just me but after a while when people can't make up their mind and jobs drag on and on and on, I lose interest and I'm kinda like...OK either figure your sh*t out or I'm moving on to more profitable jobs. I was kinda over it before I even got there.
 

TarrifBoy123

New Member
I've almost perfected the spot the high maintenance customer with my onboarding questions. But even then they slip through and for those that slip through this is the way --- "re-price properly and let the client walk away" - JamesLam ---

Quick, matter of fact pricing that scales.
 

TarrifBoy123

New Member
I have a client who is uber-wealthy. I always ask him when I see him to drop me a piece of wisdom from his experience. Last time I saw him, his wisdom was "People are crazy".
 
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