switching media

ucmj22

New Member
I'm thinking of making the switch from 3M IJ180 to Avery 1005EZ RS. Has anyone used both of these and have an opinion on whether or not to switch?
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
Lol please tel me your joking around. Avery is the Devil and when you deal with the devil your bound to get burned!!
 

CS-SignSupply-TT

New Member
What are your reasons for considering the move? Have you contacted out of market sign shops for quotes on vehicle wraps and the media they are using?
 

ucmj22

New Member
the price savings is substantial, and we have been having some problems with the 3M 180 lifting in channels. Our supplier said that if we use the avery 1005EZ and the DOL 1460 overlam, avery guarantees it to not lift in channels.
 

ProWraps

New Member
you wont. and if you do they wont honor it. if you are having lifting in channels, YOU are the reason, not the material.

no company will warranty something that is an installers fault.

im not trying to be harsh, but its the truth.
 

ucmj22

New Member
you wont. and if you do they wont honor it. if you are having lifting in channels, YOU are the reason, not the material.

no company will warranty something that is an installers fault.

im not trying to be harsh, but its the truth.

I presume then that you use 180, and have no problems with lifting? Is there something we might be missing that you could expand on, or are you just enjoying your laugh?
 

HulkSmash

Member
we use the Avery. works like a charm. Don't have problems with channels, i guess it's because we install it right. The savings isnt huge... just a cpl hundred bucks

but we still use a ton of 3m, just don't like the company, which is why we are using other material.
 

Mike F

New Member
There's a pretty long and fairly recent thread floating around about why you shouldn't use Avery, think the title has something to do with the free wrap material they've been sending out recently to try and get people to go back. After reading that thread though, I'm probably going to take the free vinyl and use it for personal stuff, but won't ever buy from them or use their material on a job.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I think there should be a rule or something for anyone asking about using A V E R Y ..... they would be escorted to an area of the site where they are given a briefing on the pros & cons to using A V E R Y.

Sorry, but there are far too many people that will never again use A V E R Y due to their classless act a few years ago and how they burned anyone that had been using their vinyls of various levels and didn't stand behind their own warranties and basically said FU to our industry. Well, anyone using that brand is not well liked by the masses here or the rest of the sign world.

You wanna save money, go right ahead, but something besides principle is in this one. Plain old standing shoulder to shoulder with your fellow sign makers that were burned. Many were forced out of business, while other rode it out. Luckily for us, we used very little A V E R Y, but what we used we got burned by AV E R Y. Fellers however, stood behind us and gave us most of our materials and some labor costs back in credit with their company. They stepped up, when their own distributor let them down.

I don't hold it against anyone using it, but I won't ever have a nice thing to say about them other than they are good for business, because their company practices makes the other companies look really good.
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
If you want something cheaper then 3M look at Oracal 3951RA or the Arlon product or anything else besides Avery!
 

ucmj22

New Member
I am not trying to disrespect anyone who has been burned by Avery. I have only been in the biz for 3 years and wrapping for 1.5. Everything I have learned about the business I have either learned from this site, or by trial and error so I appreciate the input. I had asked my supplier about switching to oracal first and they said that avery would be a closer match to the qualities of the 180 and that the oracal had a more aggressive style of adhesive. That doesn't bother me but the other installers prefer the lower tac IJ180 style adhesive.
 
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Gino

Premium Subscriber
I am not trying to disrespect anyone who has been burned by Avery. I have only been in the biz for 3 years and wrapping for 1.5. Everything I have learned about the business I have either learned from this site, or by trial and error so I appreciate the input. I had asked my supplier about switching to oracal first and they said that avery would be a closer match to the qualities of the 180 and that the oracal had a more aggressive style of adhesive. That doesn't bother me but the other installers prefer the lower tac IJ180 style adhesive.


That's total bullchit.

A V E R Y is hurting from their past ordeal and therefore, giving fantastic deals to these distributors to still consider using their chit. Your distributor is making his biggest profit by pushing A V E R Y and telling you anything you want to hear, just so long as you use it. In my opinion, it's the closet thing to a kick-back you can get. That's illegal, last time I heard. Do you thing the vast majority of these salespeople know the difference between one kind of vinyl to the next ?? Of course not. 99% of them, never even touched any vinyl in their life. They sit behind a desk and take orders. They don't don't know dick about these situations. The know there's a difference between Cor-X and solvent ink, but that's about the extent of it. They are trained on how to sell and make profits for the company, so they can keep their job.

Suzy is a work and in jeopardy of losing her job, she is too honest and selling what is good for the client..... not the company. She's warned..... she's now pushing the livin' chit out of A V E R Y to get her numbers up. She's knows she's doing wrong, but number uno still counts and she has to put food on the table at home and keep her job security. So, she sells herself out to the highest bidder and you're happy because she told you what she was trained to do.

You wanna find out the best stuff on the market.... or just get the cheapest crap out there ??

Buy sample rolls of say maybe 10 of the top wrap materials and print on them, lam them and put it on the hardest parts of vehicle and see how YOU like it.

Try it..... it's the only true way to find out. If A V E R Y wins out... so be it. I highly doubt that will happen. :banghead:


They all fail from time to time, so why go with someone that you know ahead of time will let you sit and give you nothing but grief for going cheap ??
 

insignia

New Member
Avery's business practices aside, I will say we have many wraps on 1005EZ that have been out for 5-6 years and they still look like new. Comparing Avery to 3M, they are very similar in application, I like Avery's air egress better, personally, and I like the level of initial grab a little better than 3M (but they're really close there). All in all Avery seems to be noticeably more forgiving during installation than anything else I've tried.

We've also got a lot of jobs out on Oracal 3951RA, which also look as good as new. This would be my top choice were it not for the fact that the initial tack is like super glue which makes it very tricky to work with if your install bay is anything warmer than a meat locker. It is not as conformable as Avery though (in my experience anyway), so it wouldn't be at the top of my list for something like an HHR or Sprinter.

Come to think of it, the only wrap failures (not really failures, but lifting or tunneling here and there) we've ever experienced were with 180C. Properly applied, primered and post heated, we have always had random unpredictable issues with deep channels and creases with 180C. Not every time, not extremely common, but I can comfortably say it was installed properly and I can wrap the same vehicle with Oracal or Avery and almost guarantee the issues won't be there.

Bottom line is, no vinyl is perfect, and none are bad. Avery's business practices of the not-so-distant past are certainly nothing to write home about, but frankly neither is 3M's recent foray into the retail wrap business. All of these companies look out for their own bottom lines before yours. I used to be one of the people who would boycott this or that because of the company but anymore, they all suck and they all will screw you if they get the chance, so boycotting them will leave me without material to work with. So personally, I just use the best material for the job and don't look back.
 

ucmj22

New Member
We have not been using the primer. We were a little put off by the idea when it was first brought up to us since we were already paying a premium for the vinyl, we didn't understand why we had to buy an adhesive promoter and spend the extra time painting it on. I've got 2 cans in the shop though. Guess I need to break them out. I just figured we would only have use it on deeper or wider than normal chanels.
 

Custom_Grafx

New Member
Why don't you forget about saving money when it comes to channels...

You should SELL your product as a premium that does not lift in channels, and push the client to a material that works... not something cheaper that 'might' work.

My recommendation, is to go up to 3M 380. I don't have a ton of experience with 180, but have been advised to not use in DEEP channels. I am not a pro installer myself, but I do the printing for some. They all insist on 380. It makes their lives so much easier that they reckon paying the extra to me for the material is peanuts compared to what they have to pay in time using anything else...

That's not me talking, but real comments from actual installers who really couldn't care less about which company makes the vinyl... they just want something that works 100% as described.
 
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