Tariff impact, can't get clearer than this

[WildWestDesigns]

Thinking he can make people better off by making them pay more for things shows how confused he is

To think that this is only a cost issue shows a lack of knowledge of what a tool like tariffs can be. Every country uses them, why is it everyone gets their knickers in a twist when the US does it?

Canada is doing it (why in the world they are removing Jack Daniels bottles after they have already paid the duties on the, I dunno though). Also, didn't Crown Royal move production to the US or is in the process of such? I think China leveraged higher taxes on Canada's canola oil.

As far as him backtracking on, are you talking about the ones that he has suspended for a time? Bare in mind, tariffs (or other means) can get people to the negotiating table for other things as well. Said something off the wall stupid, can get people to say/do other other actions that he actually wanted to get done, but took giving a wild shock to the system for them to do anything. That's the same thing with the whole 51st state comment. See what's going on in western Canada since that talk was going about (for a lot of different reasons, I don't actually want any of those provinces in as a state, but I digress). Same thing with Greenland/Denmark.

As far as the school switching gears, that could be a thing. I haven't been in the 12 or younger grade system since last century (nor college for that matter), however, when I was there, it was need to go to college for this, that or the other. Won't do well if you don't go to college etc. Now, maybe small towns were different, I came from the big city, so there is that.

Nobody is being arrested for flying the I
Union Jack or saying they like bacon

I haven't seen anyone being arrested for that, however, I have seen that they are being taken down under the auspice that it's offending the immigrants (both legal and illegal, ironically the whole purpose was to assimilate those coming in into the new country/culture, if not, why leave in the first place?). Now, if that's true or not, I'm on the outside looking in, I wouldn't be surprised though given how things have been happening here where I am at now (is it everywhere here stateside, maybe/maybe not).

Wildwest export is vital as otherwise the country can't grow. Just producing enough for the domestic market and only selling there means America would stagnate and be in a very dangerous position.

Americas problem has always been they are too insular and Trump has no clue about global production, he just thought as usual he could bully people into capitulation to him.

No, we haven't been insular for the last 80 years, remember we are more consumers than anything else, that alone makes for us too depending on imported goods. In fact, our politicians have cared more for people outside the US compared to inside. Exporting doesn't do squat for me personally, that's why I don't care about it as much as I care about other things. I didn't say that it is or isn't a good thing to export. However, running a trade deficit is not good, especially to countries that handled critical goods, that don't like us and want to have more global power.

 

[GAC05]

We try to support US-made products, but it is not always possible. Prices are always on the rise, no matter who is in charge (yes, I do use 3M vinyl).
Received a note this morning stating that our lift gate supplier will implement a 5.5% increase by the end of the year. I can't really complain; we are still using the price list that went into effect in 2022.
Can't sell on price anymore - has to be quality, service, and warranty. Our police light supplier (Whelen) makes just about all the parts from IC boards to the optics used in their products, here in the US.
They are expensive, but the service & support are second to none, and they just doubled the warranty on their LEDs and control systems from 5 to 10 years.
The US can do anything it needs to do if we can get our priorities in order and buckle down.

 

[victor bogdanov]

Every country uses them, why is it everyone gets their knickers in a twist when the US does it?

Canada is doing it (why in the world they are removing Jack Daniels bottles after they have already paid the duties on the, I dunno though). Also, didn't Crown Royal move production to the US or is in the process of such? I think China leveraged higher taxes on Canada's canola oil.

Country 1 - Punishes/controls (tax) it's citizens , USA government in response - I will punish and control (tax) my citizens


Also:

Call countries communist, socialist , shithole etc, then go ahead and copy their trade policy

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Country 1 - Punishes/controls (tax) it's citizens , USA government in response - I will punish and control (tax) my citizens


Also:

Call countries communist, socialist , shithole etc, then go ahead and copy their trade policy

Tariffs are not inherently communistic or socialistic. In fact, don't some communistic organisations view them as an extension of capitalism? Most of those that follow that doctrine don't like it, because it hurts the downtrodden, the workers etc. Which is what they believe capitalism does. Why I believe that they see it as an extension of capitalism.

Not to say those regimes won't use such measures, but have to realize that even those regimes have allowed a middle class to emerge (although with some caveats), because it would help with their control over the situation.

 

[victor bogdanov]

Tariffs are not inherently communistic or socialistic.

Government telling what to do (where to buy) is

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Government telling what to do (where to buy) is

Ok, even with tariffs imposed, can you not still get those goods? It maybe at a larger price compared to others, but can you not still get those goods? Or have the potential to get those goods? Now a response from another country may be to pull the plug on sending those goods (or tighten up supply chain etc), but ultimately that's the other country's decision. Which is no skin off their back if the importing country is handling the entire hit(cost) the that tariff as you talk about. The importing country's government may be trying to change habits, that may be true, but if someone still wants to get something, they can still legally do so.

Now, if you want to talk about an embargo, I could agree with you there as that would be saying saying that we can't get whatever, at least not legally.

Now, I firmly do believe the best government governs least, however, I also do realize that there are market failures and those even happen in a pure free trade market, which I don't know of that truly ever happening (true 100% free trade that is), that would involve too many people with their own self serving motives that would keep that from happening. Even if governments aren't involved, big business can elicit the same type of control that you are talking about just by manipulating supply and demand. Which would be even easier with no controls what so ever and nothing but total free trade.

 

[victor bogdanov]

Now, if you want to talk about an embargo, I could agree with you there as that would be saying saying that we can't get whatever, at least not legally.

Why can't I buy a Chinese car in the USA?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Well do have Chinese made that are easy enough to get here in the states, but they under the usual automakers that we all see and deal with, so not quite the same. Otherwise, they haven't set up shop here, I personally not to sure that I would want them to either. But that would be the only way to actually buy one is that if they had distribution here stateside, those restrictions though would keep this from happening (security concerns as well as EPA standards, if they were to actually build a plant here to build, tariffs would be a none issue as it would be related to importing, not building here).

Now you can import, I do believe that you would have to register as a slow moving vehicle due to their lack of EPA compliance for ICE vehicles. Their EVs do have bans though due to connectivity concerns (security in other words). Something that I actually have a problem with the automakers that we do have here. Not a fan of all this connectivity regardless if it's a foreign car or not.

Now the importing is not easy and I do think the duties will cost you more compared to the vehicle itself and that pesky register as a slow moving vehicle (I think that's due to EPA issues), but this wasn't about difficulty, but if you could get a Chinese car. It is possible, not without it's challenges, but it is possible. Rather or not it's worth it, that's for you to decide.

Caveat, I don't know if the rules have changed on this or not, last time I went rummaging around, as I read it, this was the case, however, it could have changed or my aged mind could have remembered wrong. These rules can and do change fairly often. I have some interest, but not a whole lot as I wouldn't ever be in a market for one of this, regardless of my tin foil hat issues, I'm unaware of a Chinese equivalent on a vehicle that I would get. But I do realize that I am not everyone.

 

[Johnny Best]

Well. after seeing the parties of products adding their cost on down the line and having the ‘downtrodden’ (which are us) paying for it as Gemini calls a surtax. From now on I will boycott Gemini and get my metel letters and such from someone else. Join in on "Boycott Gemini".

 

[ikarasu]

Well. after seeing the parties of products adding their cost on down the line and having the ‘downtrodden’ (which are us) paying for it as Gemini calls a surtax. From now on I will boycott Gemini and get my metel letters and such from someone else. Join in on "Boycott Gemini".

That's hilarious. In the other thread most people are saying they don't care about tarrifs because it doesn't affect them... When the suppliers raise the cost of goods, they'll raise them as well so the customer is the one paying the difference, and the sign shop isn't losing out on any money.

Now the supplier is raising prices because his cost goes up and you're calling for a boycott?

When all your ACM and aluminum and vinyls go up (yes, even USA made vinyl is raising in price due to the raw materials used in it being tarrifed) are you going to boycott every supplier? Or eat the price increase and not pass it onto the customer?

All your grocery chains, car dealers, every item at Walmart.... Amazon, 90% of the goods you consume will be going up due to the tarrifs, not a single company is going to absorb those costs. The 10% of items not affected by tarrifs will also go up because the supply chain will see they can raise the price and still be competitive.

 

[Boudica]

Now the supplier is raising prices because his cost goes up and you're calling for a boycott?

I read that as sarcasm.

 

[ikarasu]

I read that as sarcasm.

Hopefully. It's 6 am and I just got up, so I may be sarcasm-blind the last one started with most people saying other countries pay for the tarrif so they're not worried, to they'll buy USA produced goods so tarrifs don't affect them, to they'll just raise their pricing so they're not eating it.... Boycotting is the next logical step!

 

[Johnny Best]

I have never received a discount from Gemini in all the years I have used them. There have been price increases, but never a 10% coupon or BOGO deal, so yea I am gping to boycott them, just like my forefathers did not like the tea tax the English put on and they dumped the tea into the harbor, but wait, you are CANADIAN and just roll with things like this.You justify it with increase in everything. Well I don’t give a rat’s ass about that, I am boycotting Gemini and hopefully someone from Gemini see this and drop the surcharge and skip Christmas bonus this year.

 

[damonCA21]

That's hilarious. In the other thread most people are saying they don't care about tarrifs because it doesn't affect them... When the suppliers raise the cost of goods, they'll raise them as well so the customer is the one paying the difference, and the sign shop isn't losing out on any money.

Now the supplier is raising prices because his cost goes up and you're calling for a boycott?

When all your ACM and aluminum and vinyls go up (yes, even USA made vinyl is raising in price due to the raw materials used in it being tarrifed) are you going to boycott every supplier? Or eat the price increase and not pass it onto the customer?

All your grocery chains, car dealers, every item at Walmart.... Amazon, 90% of the goods you consume will be going up due to the tarrifs, not a single company is going to absorb those costs. The 10% of items not affected by tarrifs will also go up because the supply chain will see they can raise the price and still be competitive.

The problem is when you raise your prices to cover the tariffs and the customer decides they can no longer afford the job ( which will always happen at some point when price rise ). Maybe they have had to increase the prices for their business and arent selling as much, At that point then tariffs absolutely effect your business

 

[ikarasu]

The problem is when you raise your prices to cover the tariffs and the customer decides they can no longer afford the job ( which will always happen at some point when price rise ). Maybe they have had to increase the prices for their business and arent selling as much, At that point then tariffs absolutely effect your business

And that works for commodity items like signs.

So as a sign shop you have 2 choices - raise your prices and not take a loss... Or keep your pricing the same and and eat 15-20% loss on certain items - some shops can't afford to do that. So employees get let go, or wages stagnate, and people can't afford food / other necessity items that have a big price increase.

Signs are not the only thing going up - look up how much food is imported, how much fruits are imported.... Or how much potash to make your domestic fruits / farmland is imported.


Even stuff that are made in America, are rarely 100% American.... Somewhere along the chain it's using foreign product that's had an increase in price, which is why everything goes up.

Most business owners understand they can't just take a 10%, or even 5% hit in Proffit... Some industries may be able to handle that, but a lot can't.

 

[CanuckSigns]

And that works for commodity items like signs.

So as a sign shop you have 2 choices - raise your prices and not take a loss... Or keep your pricing the s and and eat 15-20% loss on certain items - some ships can't afford to do that. So employees get let go, or wages stagnate, and people can't afford food / other necessity items that have a big price increase.

Signs are not the only thing going up - look up how much food is imported, how much fruits are imported.... Or how much potash to make your domestic fruits / farmland is imported.


Even stuff that are made in America, are rarely 100% American.... Somewhere along the chain it's using foreign product that's had an increase in price, which is why everything goes up.

Most business owners understand they can't just take a 10%, or even 5% hit in Proffit... Some industries may be able to handle that, but a lot can't.

this 100%

Another thing that is often overlooked, even domestic manufacturers are raising their prices, they are seeing a huge increase in orders due to the tariffs, and as a result can not keep up, basic supply & demand dictates when demand outpaces supply, prices increase. This MAY be a temporary measure if someone else sees the opportunity to open another american widget factory, but these things don't happen overnight, and if the market is used to paying 20% more for widgets, where is the incentive to sell them for less? There was a member on here who used to chime in on threads where someone was asking how much they should charge for a sign, his answer was always "as much as you can while keeping a straight face, then add install" same applies here, if the market is used to paying $8 for a cup of coffee, why would you go in and sell yours for $7?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The problem is when you raise your prices to cover the tariffs and the customer decides they can no longer afford the job ( which will always happen at some point when price rise ). Maybe they have had to increase the prices for their business and arent selling as much, At that point then tariffs absolutely effect your business

If one sources from those that are affected by the tariffs, yes that would affect you. Now as I and others have mentioned, some use the tariffs as a means of increasing prices that aren't directly related to the tariffs, but they are using that as a scapegoat. Now, there are some that have seen an uptick in orders due to the tariffs and have increased price that way, so it's hard to tell at times which one that it is. That's just the business being dishonest though and unfortunately for the pro 100% free trade crowd with no restrictions at all, that will still happen. Easily manipulate supply and demand to make it happen. So while in theory free trade is mutually beneficial that goes under the supposition that everyone is going to hold hands and sing kumbaya. I don't think that's going to happen between countries that are only using trade as a matter of convenience, nothing more.

However, if the uptick in price was legitimately due to demand going up for sources that aren't getting hit by the tariffs, that also just shows how much the dependency was there. Now typically, when there is an increase in demand, the supply should ramp up as well. Unless they keep the supply artificially depressed to be able to maintain those price points or get higher prices (market failure).

Signs are not the only thing going up - look up how much food is imported, how much fruits are imported.... Or how much potash to make your domestic fruits / farmland is imported.

Have to be careful here, not all of the more common potash varieties are kind to all fruits/veggies. Potatoes, peppers, tomatoes, tobacco even have to be careful with the source of potassium one is using. Around here, we have a lot of hickory, oak and maple trees. Mix that in compost (at least for my size of spread) and that is a far better source if one is growing anything that has a concern about sources (which most of the crops that I do have have that issue, even though they are also high potassium consumers as well, or atleast some of them are).

One downside with the proliferation of grocery stores is that most people have lost the knowledge/desire for more self sufficiency. Although I am hearing more hens/roosters that aren't in my flock, so I know that has at least has gotten an uptick.

And people would be surprised about how long things take to get to the grocery store, even if they are local, which makes one wonder about what they are doing to keep them "fresh", we have come a long way since the "flavor Savr" tomatoes (I would argue not in a good way, but that's another topic).

 

[damonCA21]

It very much depends what that $550 billion is for and where it will go. Will it create more jobs or keep existing ones. Will Trump syphon most of it off for him and his rich mates so the normal man is no better off?
Also is that over 10 or 20 years, in which case it may not have that much effect

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It very much depends what that $550 billion is for and where it will go. Will it create more jobs or keep existing ones. Will Trump syphon most of it off for him and his rich mates so the normal man is no better off?
Also is that over 10 or 20 years, in which case it may not have that much effect

$550 billion is loans and investments from Japan... Like we need to borrow more money. All this shit is confusing and being spun 100 different ways.

 

[ikarasu]

$550 billion is loans and investments from Japan... Like we need to borrow more money. All this shit is confusing and being spun 100 different ways.

It's weird how they can call a loan an investment. It'd like me saying my CC companies are investing in me. It'll be interesting when the full terms come out, if they do.. but from the sounds of it, The US Picks a project they want funded... Japan will fund the project (Unless they dont want to, they can turn it down within 45 days), And then 50% of the proffits from said project goes to USA, 50% to Japan until a set amount is reached... probably at minimum their funding back, but likely much more than their funding. This sounds like a Modified version of treasury bonds.... I wonder if its purpose behind the scenes is to Borrow more money without raising the debt level more than it already is.

How is that different from me going to a bank with a proposal... The bank saying they think I'll make money, so they'll fund it.... and I have to pay the money back? Thats not really an investment at all... To me it sounds like USA just got a 550 billion line of credit from Japan.

Doesn't this do the opposite of what Trump wants... And put further ownership of industries in foreign hands? Unless they don't own it at all and are simply an investor, then they get kicked out once their investment is repaid.