To Laminate or not-window perf

[Silvertip]

We have been doing more window perf (vehicles) and we are having the discussion-to laminate or not. We have done them both ways and my husband, the installer, likes them better without lam. and me the designer like them better with lam for the extra longevity. Wipers take their toll.
Just wondering what others are doing and why!
Have a great day all!

 

[Biker Scout]

It's the law (at least in the states that I've installed them) Must have optically clear lamination if going on a vehicle. Holes don't fill up with dirt obscuring vision once moisture is applied.

 

[J Hill Designs]

I would like to see documentation of these 'laws' of which you speak

 

[Biker Scout]

Why would you want to open yourself up to lawsuits if your customer gets into an accident because of muddy/blurry visual impairment? Seriously? Because you were too cheap to do things right?

Hang on, I'll look for the statute. I recall it was amended into some bylaws around 2008. Since I have to "PROVE COMMON SENSE" to you.

Also, explain to me, how you explain to your customer to clean his windows? Power washer? HAHA! Blasts the film right off... or if your lucky, lifts most of it off the glass and you can kinda puch it back down with dirt under the adhesive. How do you keep the rear window wiper from scratching the ink off in a nice arc pattern? Real professional install there.

 

[rdm01]

I've always laminated with optically clear lam. When we went to do our shop delivery trucks I decided to try it unlaminated, as they are very hard on the vehicles and I figured I would be replacing shortly after installation anyways. First rain I had 6 delivery drivers all saying the couldn't see a thing and it made driving a nightmare. From now on we will always laminate, as I would never want a client going through that.

 

[J Hill Designs]

Why would you want to open yourself up to lawsuits if your customer gets into an accident because of muddy/blurry visual impairment? Seriously? Because you were too cheap to do things right?

Hang on, I'll look for the statute. I recall it was amended into some bylaws around 2008. Since I have to "PROVE COMMON SENSE" to you.

of course its common sense. I would like you to prove that ITS A LAW

 

[J Hill Designs]

I would be surprised if it would be a law.

me too

 

[fresh]

of course its common sense. I would like you to prove that ITS A LAW

I agree. I keep hearing people say "OH DOT Regulations require 50/50 perf" yadda yadda yadda. Who is the regulating body? The state?

If you claim to be going by the book, then you should be able to at least cite what book you are talking about.

 

[Gino]

I agree. I keep hearing people say "OH DOT Regulations require 50/50 perf" yadda yadda yadda. Who is the regulating body? The state?

If you claim to be going by the book, then you should be able to at least cite what book you are talking about.

That part IS the law. If caught and proven you used the wrong percentage, you could be held liable for certain fines and/or damages and replacement costs out-a-pocket.

As for having windows or not, it boils down to..... so if you have windows so at least make them a visibly clear as possible. A law on the books for not laminating perf, I highly doubt it, but you ARE probably violating some manufacture's warranty if not using it. Dirt holding up in there really depends on the owner's maintenance program, not your laminate. Again, it has to be a specific laminate or again warranty would be void, not to mention some clear laminates will make ALL images blurry within a few feet. Now, that would be illegal. Make sure you are using the correct product with your perf.

 

[fresh]

That part IS the law. .

Don't tell me "its the law." Cite the actual law, including statute numbers.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

50/50 perf is not a DOT law... in fact the only rear view law on DOT books is that a side view mirror is required for safe operation on all light duty vehicles.

You can literally block out all widows except for the driver and passenger windows and be perfectly legal unless a state law expands on it. There are no laws on the books in AZ currently that bans it, This is from 15+ years of Fleet Management.

 

[Gino]

Don't tell me "its the law." Cite the actual law, including statute numbers.

50/50 perf is not a DOT law... in fact the only rear view law on DOT books is that a side view mirror is required for safe operation on all light duty vehicles.

You can literally block out all widows except for the driver and passenger windows and be perfectly legal unless a state law expands on it. There are no laws on the books in AZ currently that bans it, This is from 15+ years of Fleet Management.

Ya know what......?? You guys are right. It's not the law. In fact, just paint your windows black and have yourself a lotta fun. There are no laws on the books to show you this stuff and you caught us all trying to make things a little easier and safer for all concerned. In Arizonia according to your post, you can block in their entiretly all side windows in any vehicle except the passenger door and driver's door. So, it's even Okay to block out the rear window and the windshield according to this. Must make driving at night a little frightful.

I have no idea why this stuff is considered industry standard, but someone just spouts off something they heard, which makes their position easy and it becomes gospel. What is wrong with this place ?? For crying out loud..... you think having two side-view mirrors is gonna solve all problems going on in back of you ?? Cripes, I'm glad I don't live in your areas. People backing outta driveways running over kids, bicylces and whatever else, cause every hole in the vehicle is plugged up with non-see thru vinyl crap. Yeah, the whole thread is about..... Is laminating a good thing or a bad thing. It just turns out to...... it's a lazy appraoch or a cheap approach and with your answers and observations, just slap any-ol-thing on there and be done with it. Yep, that's the ticket.

 

[Biker Scout]

OK, under the DMV VC Subsection 26708 (a) (1-3) 26708.
(a) (1) A person shall not drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows.(2) A person shall not drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied in or upon the vehiclethat obstructs or reduces the driver’s clear view through the windshield or side windows.
(3) This subdivision applies to a person driving a motor vehicle with the driver’s clear vision through the windshield, or side or rear windows

So, just by definition of the first line, they could be d***s just for having anything on your windows in the first place. Then, lower down in section 10:

(10) Sun screening devices meeting the requirements of Section 26708.2 installed on the side windows on either side of the vehicle... has in his or her possession a letter or other document signed by a licensed physician and surgeon certifying that the person must be shaded from the sun due to a medical condition, or has in his or her possession a letter or other document signed by a licensed optometrist certifying that the person must be shaded from the sun due to a visual condition. The devices authorized by this paragraph shall not be used during darkness

States you have to have a doctor or optometrist's permission to have it, and can not use at night. Technically, under the letter of the law, perforated window film is sun screening, and if they wanted to could tell you to remove it when driving at night.

Perforated window film can also be classified as a film or tint. Which varies by state as to the legal light transmittance allowed, but:
(d) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), clear, colorless, and transparent material may be installed, affixed, or applied to the front side windows, located to the immediate left and right of the front seat if the following conditions are met:
(1) The material has a minimum visible light transmittance of 88 percent.

(5) If the material described in this subdivision tears or bubbles, or is otherwise worn to prohibit clear vision, it shall be removed or replaced.

Regardless of state to state bylaws, I think it's pretty clear that if you the professional installer are not providing a product in which the driver has a clear and unobstructed view, then you (the business) can be held liable. Because if someone backs over a kid in a driveway, and says they couldn't see because of dirty filled holes in their window film... guess where the finger is ultimately going to be pointing at?

 

[J Hill Designs]

those are about the windshield and side windows (directly to left and right of driver)

 

[Stormyj]

I remember a long time ago in Cali, that if you had decals or anything obstructing your back window, you had to have two side mirrors. Yes, back then cars didnt always have two side mirrors.

 

[Biker Scout]

Don't forget that some states say that if you do block out the side windows you have to have a commercial license. Perf could apply, depending on who pulled you over and what judge you got.

 

[J Hill Designs]

did you read this part?

(b) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(1) Rearview mirrors.
(2) Adjustable nontransparent sunvisors that are mounted forward of the side windows and are not attached to the glass.
(3) Signs, stickers, or other materials that are displayed in a seven-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield farthest removed from the driver, signs, stickers, or other materials that are displayed in a seven-inch square in the lower corner of the rear window farthest removed from the driver, or signs, stickers, or other materials that are displayed in a five-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield nearest the driver.
(4) Side windows that are to the rear of the driver.

 

[Biker Scout]

Yes... but again... CLEAR AND UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW is repeated over and over again. Why would you not want to provide that to your customers? Greed? Cheapness? Do you need a specific law or statute to tell you to do the right thing by your clients?

 

[J Hill Designs]

I dont do many vehicles, and never perf, so no.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

Clear and unobstructed view of the front windshield and direct left and right windows of the driver. All rear windows can be covered as long as you have 2 side mirrors. THAT is USDOT Law on the books since 1967.

I was in fleet management and still consult for fleets and this is the only legal law unless a state has a statute that expands upon FEDERAL DOT Law.

To go back to the main topic I do not laminate our window perf for ease of visibility in all conditions other then rain.

 

[Gino]

I don't know about Jersey, California, Arizona or anywhere else, but around here, the cops and state cops are getting popped before they even get to the car because of all the crap on the windows, they made it illegal and can stop you for having your windows.... any windows cluttered with crap of any sorts..... pom poms, vinyl, dark privacy tint or vacation place stickers.

So, while it might not be illegal in easy to read sentence form, they'll still pull ya over if they want and can cite you for some kinda law on the books. BUT, like y'all said, plaster them windows shut and don't worry about it. You won't get in trouble.... not at all.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

We don't here... there are lots of reasons our clients want them blocked out. A lot of our clients carry very expensive equipment in their vans and trucks, it deters theft since they can't see whats in the vehicle.