Ugly truck with stupid body lines..in my opinion

[bob]

So you only do master pieces?

It's 'masterpieces', one word. And, the answer would be that certainly this is the direction one in which you should head and, at the same time, not be dismayed if you never get there.

Here in this shop there is a rule "The client gets to specify what it will say, I get to specify how it will say it." There are other rules, but this is the one that's appropriate to this situation.

Have you looked around...crap is the new "Hey...that looks good"

Perhaps on your home world. In the rest of the external reality, crap looks exactly like crap.

I can't be the only one that does not do only A1 work everyday, all day long.

Everyone deserves what they put up with [grammatical apologies]. Why do you do what even you consider to be sub-standard work? Worse, why do you whine your own personal variation of 'He made me do it?"

 

[Jeff]

Sorry, I thought I was posting amongst my peers not English teachers and people whom live in a perfect world.

I didn't start this post so I could discuss today's crappy layouts and designs.

I'm pretty sure my designing skills are fairly solid, but in my world (smallish community) I choose to accommodate as many customers as I can. I think if I took the arrogant approach of "my way or the highway" I'd have a different reputation than I currently have.

I try to educate customers and offer improvements but that doesn't always work.

I receive a lot of word of mouth business because of my skills, I also have received work from having lettered this roofing company's stuff because everyone locally knows them. It is ignorant to think that the work that I receive because of them is crap work.

What I meant by crap is the new "Hey...that looks good" is fewer and fewer people care about or understand good layout, they worry about price. I know...here comes another sermon about pricing.

To date I have done over $13,000 worth of work for these people...their happy...I'm happy.

I have figured out I can't rid the world of ugly lettering or educate everyone about layout rules in this one life time that I have...but I do enjoy making people happy...and cashing their checks!

 

[HulkSmash]

a picture is worth a thousand words........ just sayin

uhh ok

https://twitter.com/ColoradoSigns/s...=ColoradoSigns&utm_content=489120487167913985

 

[bob]

Sorry, I thought I was posting amongst my peers not English teachers and people whom live in a perfect world.

A large part of this business is dealing with words. It should not be a stretch to expect those self same peers to have at least a rudimentary command of the language and a grasp of basic grammar.

I didn't start this post so I could discuss today's crappy layouts and designs.

There are probably three organisms in the entire galaxy that care a dollop of bandicoot drool just why you started this thread, or anything else about you for that matter. You get to post whatever you like. Others get to respond in whatever manner they choose to respond. That is the charm of the thing.

I'm pretty sure my designing skills are fairly solid, but in my world (smallish community) I choose to accommodate as many customers as I can. I think if I took the arrogant approach of "my way or the highway" I'd have a different reputation than I currently have.

Yet here you are without any evidence of your proficiency other than an absolutely dreadful example of aggressive mediocrity.

It's not necessarily "My way or the highway", rather it's "My way unless you have a better way". In this business, if you can hit your a$$ with both hands, seldom does a client demonstrate a better way.

I try to educate customers and offer improvements but that doesn't always work...

...remainder of self-serving and grammatically dubious rant mercifully deleted...

Perhaps one day when you're not so defensive and lost in your own morass of rationalizations you might come to the realization that things should be done well or not at all.

 

[CES020]

I choose to accommodate as many customers as I can. I think if I took the arrogant approach of "my way or the highway" I'd have a different reputation than I currently have.

I wouldn't dare consider Grandpa Dan or Dan Antonelli arrogant. I don't believe it's arrogant to care about my customer more than they care about their own image. I'm actually kind of proud of the fact that I try my best to deliver things to a customer that they never thought about. Most small business owners didn't come from business schools, they were people who worked hard and started their own business because they were good at what they did. However, not many of them were good with design and marketing their company.

If an electrician comes in to your house and you tell him "Hook up this to that", do you expect him to just do it? Or should he say "I can't do that because it's wrong to hook this to that?". You'd tell him you what you wanted accomplished (I want this thing to work over there) and you'd let him do his job because he's the skilled tradesman in the room. It's no different with us. We know more about signs than the roofer does. I don't tell the roofer how to install my roof, so why is it okay to have the roofer tell me what the layout should be?

I don't see that as arrogant at all, I see it as using your trade to maximize the value of your work and hopefully increase the visibility of the customers business.

 

[Jeff]

A large part of this business is dealing with words. It should not be a stretch to expect those self same peers to have at least a rudimentary command of the language and a grasp of basic grammar.

Based on your view, (and I must say, I'm glad I do not view things your way) it's amazing that I have been able to earn a living and raise a family while being a non-grammatically correct full time sign person for the last 30 plus years.

There are probably three organisms in the entire galaxy that care a dollop of bandicoot drool just why you started this thread, or anything else about you for that matter.

You must care...you keep coming back, to not only read this, but also take away time from your carefully executed life to keep responding as well.

Yet here you are without any evidence of your proficiency other than an absolutely dreadful example of aggressive mediocrity.

Your sheer ignorance screams with this outburst of grand knowledge of my ability based on a layout that I displayed just to show where the copy would go on a vehicle of which I do not like the body lines.

Someone with your raw talent in front of a screen should easily be able to do a search of Jeff's Lettering and find some examples of my work. I tried doing a search for "Bob"...I did not find anything that looks like perfect lettering from God himself. Then I tried to look at your profile here to see if I could get a look at your sign making talents but you seem to be just another loud mouth that likes to post things not related to the original post and hide from the public.

Is it possible to view some of your work so I can decide for myself if any of your unrequested critiques are worthy?

. It's not necessarily "My way or the highway", rather it's "My way unless you have a better way".

How could there be a better way...you're the best...just ask yourself.

Perhaps one day when you're not so defensive and lost in your own morass of rationalizations you might come to the realization that things should be done well or not at all.

Perhaps one day when you're not trolling and spewing your self-righteous rhetoric you might come to the realization that all things do not have to be done your way.

I wouldn't dare consider Grandpa Dan or Dan Antonelli arrogant. I don't believe it's arrogant to care about my customer more than they care about their own image. I'm actually kind of proud of the fact that I try my best to deliver things to a customer that they never thought about. Most small business owners didn't come from business schools, they were people who worked hard and started their own business because they were good at what they did. However, not many of them were good with design and marketing their company.

Everybody has to use Dan and Dan as the examples, I respect their work and I did not call them arrogant. As I stated above, I try to educate customers as best I can. It just seems to be harder all the time...seems everyone with a pc is a designer.

I admittedly do not have the passion I once had for the "art" of sign making. It is more of just a means of making a living for me these days.

Again, CES020, is it possible to get a look at some of your work online?

Back to the original post...the truck is done...I still don't like the body lines...they LOVED it...even know the layout (theirs) is not good...best of all...the check has been cashed.

Hey Mr. Perfect grammar...it's selfsame or self-same not self same.

 

[CES020]

Again, CES020, is it possible to get a look at some of your work online?

What does my work have to do with anything? I could produce wonderful or horrific things. How's that change the fact about this layout at all? It's a journey for me, we're going from "we don't design anything" to starting to offer design work, which we hire out to designers, so my work isn't Dan or Dan levels. If you'd read what people are saying instead of getting insulted by it all, you'd end in a far better place.

What I say was it's a place to strive for and what others have said is if you keep offering the low end of things, you'll attract more low end things. How that point is related to my work is beyond me.

I don't have to be design master to comment on a design.

 

[neato]

I've seen Jeff's work, he's a very solid designer.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't need to be told how to run his business.

 

[David Wright]

As far as Jeff's abilities go, he has shown very fine work and designing skills on this forum and on Letterville.
As far as producing crap handed to us, I suspect most here do it at least occasionally.

Bob, You have stated in the past your non judgmental attitude on customer requests and how you have complied with them, am I correct?

 

[CES020]

I didn't mean to imply he's not a great designer. He just mentioned that he's in the mentality of pushing through the crap work, day after day. I only mentioned what I did because people like Dan and Dan have helped me change the mentality I had, which was very much the same thing, and it's been quite helpful to me.

 

[bob]

...Bob, You have stated in the past your non judgmental attitude on customer requests and how you have complied with them, am I correct?

As I have said many times, the client gets to specify what it says and I get to specify how it gets said. The client also gets to specify what particular flavor it would like; early 20th century, art deco, western, edgy, 50's retro, whatever. When I come up with something, the client gets to approve or disapprove. If it disapproves, that very disapproval yields a lot of insight in to just what they might be looking for. I've been at this a long time and there's seldom a first disapproval, let alone a second. I can't remember that last time there was a third. Mere color tweaking notwithstanding.

Moreover I really don't care what it says; give the finger to your gods, proclaim some sort of ethnic supremacy, offer prays to those same gods, challenge someone to a duel, boast on the size of your johnson, it's just words. As long as I get paid, I shrug at the content. It holds little, if any, interest for me.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

I found earlier on that how I presented myself and my work went a long way in establishing credibility, and being able to have clients trust me more. The unfortunate thing is that sign makers, in general, do not have a reputation from small business owners as being able to understand marketing and advertising. Many have an amazing grasp of it, though, but on paper, or on the web, they don't make their case. So for the people who ask about how to attract the best work, I always so to first be introspective and look at themselves - and ask themselves if they were the small business owner, what rationale have I given them to choose me, and trust me over another competitor?

Everyone wants to do the fun projects, and to have clients give you creative freedom. It doesn't happen overnight, but it's great when it happens. My standard, when I first started was what I call the 'SignCraft' test. Would this job be good enough to make it into SignCraft? So I worked really hard, gave clients much more than they paid for initially, and invested in the work I put out on the streets. Then I invested heavily in marketing myself. The work on the street (or in this case, the web) was my advertising.

As my agency grew, and I basically left the sign business, it actually became much easier. But I always tried to lay the ground work for the client to choose us, but keeping in mind their basic question: how can you help me more than anyone else.

They have a marketing problem when they knock on your door. How well you can illustrate to them how your solution, although more expensive than a competitor, will solve their problem is the benchmark they use to choose you over them. Otherwise, its simply just a commodity to be sold to the cheapest guy. Selling solutions versus commodities is really a completely different approach.

 

[SignManiac]

Flat out saying no to a client has been a better long term investment than taking their money and running. You can choose to do only good work or you can put your name to crap. Easy choice in my book.