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Upgrading to Latex or Solvent inks.

B893P78

New Member
Hello all,

I apologize in advance for such a noobish question, but I am on the verge of buying new equipment, and my confusion is turned up to 11. However, my expectations may be unreasonable. This side of the world is new to me, and I think I have the wrong mindset.

I have three Canon Printers at my home. They are aqueous printers, I started with one small one and bought bigger ones as I outgrew them, and the best one is a Prograf Pro-4100. These are hobby machines, and I originally got them to print my own pictures and posters. But over time, I don't know how it happened, and it is kind of a long story for another day, but these printers started making money the last couple of years and have turned a nice profit. However, being aqueous printers, we started looking into upgrading to Solvent or latex machines.

I contacted my local rep to order some samples and go over all the features and requirements, and everything sounds great with latex. Especially how they can be turned off without causing damage to the heads, and I will probably be using the 220v drops we use to charge the cars, so that is a plus. They are also within the budget because I am trying to stay below 18k.

Then I got the samples, and the quality was not what I was expecting. The samples were grainy. All the samples appeared to have an issue with the color green.

They had a backlit sample that looked fine, but the others looked like they were at a very low DPI. I combed through the internet looking for information. I have found both sides of the aisle where it is said that the HP 300 series can produce photo-quality prints, to others that these printers are meant for stuff to be seen from far away. I have seen print samples that I am told are good quality, but all I see is the graininess when I look at them. I found some posts saying that a properly configured HP printer (color management, profiles etc.) will produce solid color prints on most colors. I even got samples from more expensive printers like the Roland VF2-640, which were also grainy.

I requested some samples from HP directly to see if maybe there is something wrong with the samples I got. With that being said, some of the research I have done here regarding graininess has been concerning.

Are my expectations just too high? The HP is listed at 1200dpi, but the prints I received look exactly like my first canon printer, which struggled to print at 600 dpi.

I started looking into printers that could print at a higher DPI rating than 1200 as I feel that some of these printers have caveats to print at that resolution because all but the backlit of these samples look like they were far below 1200 DPI. I am looking into Mutoh printers at the moment to see if perhaps that's a better option. They are much more expensive for six-color versions, and getting replacement parts seems like it may be an issue. The Epson printers are priced competitively to the Mutoh.
 
You are looking at moving from photo printers that print almost exclusively on fragile aqueous coated papers, to machines that are built primarily for outdoor-durable applications, using a far wider range of medias - in particular, uncoated PCV. Aqueous photo printers provide the most photorealistic (largest gamut and least grain) output in the world of inkjet printing. However, they don't tend to play well in in some outdoor applications.
 
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SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
The closest you're going to get to the PRO4100 is the Epson S80600, however the selection of paper types you can print on with a solvent is about 2% of what's available for aqueous.
 

B893P78

New Member
The closest you're going to get to the PRO4100 is the Epson S80600, however the selection of paper types you can print on with a solvent is about 2% of what's available for aqueous.
Yes I was going to try a get some samples for this printer as Grimco is only a few miles from my home. However, the printer will be located in my home below ground, a solvent printer probably isn't a good idea.

I will have to do more research on Mimaki and Mutoh printers.
 

victor bogdanov

Active Member
What are you going to print with the printer? if you are printing "pictures and posters" then a latex or ecosolvent is not the best tool
 

B893P78

New Member
What are you going to print with the printer? if you are printing "pictures and posters" then a latex or ecosolvent is not the best tool
We have been printing posters, canvas and indoor advertising and stickers with our photo printers. We are going to keep these printers but we have been getting request for jobs that these printers are just not meant for. Calendared vinyl and the inks are very expensive and the canon goes through ink rather quickly. The quality doesn't need to match the Canon, just surprised the Latex prints looked so grainy.
 

victor bogdanov

Active Member
We have been printing posters, canvas and indoor advertising and stickers with our photo printers. We are going to keep these printers but we have been getting request for jobs that these printers are just not meant for. Calendared vinyl and the inks are very expensive and the canon goes through ink rather quickly. The quality doesn't need to match the Canon, just surprised the Latex prints looked so grainy.
I'm using roland SG2's and print quality is great, no grain, would fit into your budget. Epson 40600 would be the #1 recommendation from most people here. Don't worry about the "solvent" part and running it in your basement, latex isn't odor free either
 

B893P78

New Member
I will look into the Epson S40600, it cost right about the same as an HP 315. Any benefit with going with an Eco-Solvent option like a Mimaki CVJ150 or CVJ300 or a Mutoh ValueJet 1324x.

 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
Lexjet, Sihl, Breathing Color/Permalite, and many other aqueous inkjet media producers also offer solvent
inkjet printable materials(canvas too). If you want to print on fine art materials, you can use classic uncoated artist papers
that you might find from Fedregoni, Fabriano, Zerkall, and Arches(just to name a few).

You can also experiment to see if a media you want to print is possible- and you won't
need to prime it with a receptor coating as you would in the aqueous context.
 

balstestrat

Problem Solver
I will look into the Epson S40600, it cost right about the same as an HP 315. Any benefit with going with an Eco-Solvent option like a Mimaki CVJ150 or CVJ300 or a Mutoh ValueJet 1324x.
You do know that Epson is eco-solvent as well, right? It just sounded like maybe you didn't know.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
Get a print sample from an Epson 40600, ours all print amazingly (ours are 60600 but same heads/gamut). We print on all different types of materials; wrap vinyl, canvas, banner, coated papers, etc, etc. Get a good rep and have them send you samples.

Yes, a latex is always going to be grainy, they are meant more for production than fine art if that makes sense. You have to run them on their slowest settings / most passes to get close to the "regular" output of an eco-solvent. The worst part about that is the replaceable heads are always constantly wearing out, and the more worn out they are the worse they print, so unless you are changing their heads when they're at 50% of their life left you are printing poorer quality until they are replaced.

I recommend getting a hold of Trigon Imaging about their available printers and products for Eco Solvent.
 

B893P78

New Member
Get a print sample from an Epson 40600, ours all print amazingly (ours are 60600 but same heads/gamut). We print on all different types of materials; wrap vinyl, canvas, banner, coated papers, etc, etc. Get a good rep and have them send you samples.

Yes, a latex is always going to be grainy, they are meant more for production than fine art if that makes sense. You have to run them on their slowest settings / most passes to get close to the "regular" output of an eco-solvent. The worst part about that is the replaceable heads are always constantly wearing out, and the more worn out they are the worse they print, so unless you are changing their heads when they're at 50% of their life left you are printing poorer quality until they are replaced.

I recommend getting a hold of Trigon Imaging about their available printers and products for Eco Solvent.
In your experience how are the Epson printers with waste?
 

brdesign

New Member
The few times I tried photopaper on a Latex I had a lot of problems with head strikes, the paper tends to buckle with the ink. I had to turn down the saturation to avoid head strikes. Photo paper may require some experimentation the get a good combination of material and printer settings. I found the latex to be great at printing canvas and backlit materials.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
In your experience how are the Epson printers with waste?
They definitely waste way less material. They don't run through a lot of ink sitting idle and do a good job of keeping their selves clean. You do have to do a bit of manual cleaning every couple weeks but it is quick and easy. (10 minutes)
You can laminate just a few hours after printing also if you are concerned about that.
 

netsol

Active Member
Regarding eco solvent below ground, get an "air scrubber" with an activated charcoal filter

The smell never bothered me, but some find it objectionable
 

B893P78

New Member
They definitely waste way less material. They don't run through a lot of ink sitting idle and do a good job of keeping their selves clean. You do have to do a bit of manual cleaning every couple weeks but it is quick and easy. (10 minutes)
You can laminate just a few hours after printing also if you are concerned about that.
I am going to request some samples, but this printer sounds like it may be the one.

Regarding eco solvent below ground, get an "air scrubber" with an activated charcoal filter

The smell never bothered me, but some find it objectionable
Thanks, I will look into this.
 

StickerGuy83

New Member
I'm using roland SG2's and print quality is great, no grain, would fit into your budget. Epson 40600 would be the #1 recommendation from most people here. Don't worry about the "solvent" part and running it in your basement, latex isn't odor free either
Latex inks are odor free. The odor is from the substrate reacting to the heat being applied to it, not the inks.

As for printing with eco solvent inks indoors, the level of VOC's really depends on how much ink is being layed down. If your printing small decals, its not going to be much. If your printing large coverage with high density, then it becomes more of an issue. Ventilation is recommended at this point.
 

StratoJet

Merchant Member
StratoJet has a 66” Synthetic water based printer that can print on any type of roll media, 0% VOCs, so no venting and zero smell. It’s 2400dpi using a 2.5 plt print head and is the closets to the quality you’re used; but even better. 100% photo coverage runs ~$0.09 a square foot. A great option for you!

We’ll be at PRINTING United Expo in Orlando October 6-8th

 
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