Vertical Banding on FLORA

[Kaiser]

Good Morning guys.

Wondering if anyone knows how to eliminate this. I have some Vertical Banding happening on my FLORA. Im printing at 1200x1200 with 2 Extracts Bidirectional but any other combination I use gives me the same results. The banding is always present on the same areas no matter what CMYK values Im using. The techs have been here and have adjusted everything from negative pressure to belt tensions. Someone mentioned cure banding but no matter how our lamps are set its still there. They tested the same file with a solid colour and they have the same symptoms on their machine. Its still there and always in the same position. Encoder strip is clean too. Apparently no matter what resolution the file is, whether made here or at tech area, the results are always the same. Solid colours, apparently, are impossible to print. We have also ruled out warping of the media and any media related issues as no matter what substrate we use. Its always present.

Any tech gurus out there have a suggestion for me, Im all out of ideas.

 

[mumpower]

Flora

Can you call me about your flora 423 845 0204 or 1 800 368 5420 Ike Mumpower

 

[RyanFelty]

Is there anything on the bed? like maybe excess in or something the would be lifting the material in those areas? That is all I can think of....I have had this happen on the cet and is was because of a job that I printed a pattern on the bed so I could print on a routed piece of material. Good luck I know the frustration my friend!

 

[Kaiser]

Wish it were that simple. Im working on 4 different substrates at once. (dont ask) Each and every one has the same issue. And always on the same spot. The table has been tested to see if it is warped and it isnt.

 

[artbot]

one would like to attribute vertical banding to something physical/mechanical. i don't know what this is, but consider a few things that might lead you in the right direction. i believe the HP 45 series printers have vertical banding issues. maybe there are a few tidbits of info in those threads concerning this that might lead to a diagnosis. also, reading several CET threads on this site, i think a few goblins were finally the fault of the motherboard. i believe this flora might have the same as the CET FK mother board?

mechanically speaking maybe do a few more things that might isolate and reveal something odd.

-is it doing this when it changes direction? only on the right side? if so, can you set the margin to the middle of the table or far left and repeat the issue? if so, this might be a voltage issue when the brakes on the motor engage and draw too many amps off the board, or possibly there is some crimping in the harness that is exaggerated when the lines are stretched or jerked. or perhaps the encoder reader line is being crimped at that junction?

and is it in all colors?

have you tried lowering the printhead acceleration length in the motor tab (write the current number down before changing)? this will help if there is a voltage issue when changing direction.

 

[CS-SignSupply]

Which Model of Flora and what heads are installed? I am not showing 1200x1200 as an optional print mode here. Have you contacted the US Flora Dealer that sold the equipment to you?

 

[Kaiser]

one would like to attribute vertical banding to something physical/mechanical. i don't know what this is, but consider a few things that might lead you in the right direction. i believe the HP 45 series printers have vertical banding issues. maybe there are a few tidbits of info in those threads concerning this that might lead to a diagnosis. also, reading several CET threads on this site, i think a few goblins were finally the fault of the motherboard. i believe this flora might have the same as the CET FK mother board?

mechanically speaking maybe do a few more things that might isolate and reveal something odd.

-is it doing this when it changes direction? only on the right side? if so, can you set the margin to the middle of the table or far left and repeat the issue? if so, this might be a voltage issue when the brakes on the motor engage and draw too many amps off the board, or possibly there is some crimping in the harness that is exaggerated when the lines are stretched or jerked. or perhaps the encoder reader line is being crimped at that junction?

and is it in all colors?

have you tried lowering the printhead acceleration length in the motor tab (write the current number down before changing)? this will help if there is a voltage issue when changing direction.

All the mechanics have apparently been checked. Whether it could be board problem or not, I dont know. We havent gotten there yet. The speed was reduced from 110000 to 90000 to check and it was still an issue. Thankx for the other notes though artbot. I will look into it.

 

[Kaiser]

Which Model of Flora and what heads are installed? I am not showing 1200x1200 as an optional print mode here. Have you contacted the US Flora Dealer that sold the equipment to you?

Im based in Europe. We are running a 2512 with 4CMYK + 1W. Our tech support is trying their best to resolve the issue but its still extremely valuable downtime for us and im here trying to speed up the process of getting this issue fixed.

 

[artbot]

carriage speed or acceleration length? i believe they are different. acc' length is the distance the motor travels to get up to top speed. this would be a temporary state vs the general speed across the gantry.

i'd also suggest contacting "ice" or "nicky". they are both far and above the gurus on this platform. not "trained" techs. they have been building/designing this printer.

 

[Kaiser]

carriage speed or acceleration length? i believe they are different. acc' length is the distance the motor travels to get up to top speed. this would be a temporary state vs the general speed across the gantry.

i'd also suggest contacting "ice" or "nicky". they are both far and above the gurus on this platform. not "trained" techs. they have been building/designing this printer.

What was changed was on the actual global config file on thread 3. 110000 to 90000

 

[miker]

Have you lubricated and checked the carriage bearings. Checked for inconsistency in the carriage rail?

 

[Kaiser]

Have you lubricated and checked the carriage bearings. Checked for inconsistency in the carriage rail?

Everything is lubricated. Bearings have been checked. Screws on the rail have been checked for torque to see if they are all tight enough. Belt has no faults. Encoder strip has been checked. They are in the process of checking for a workaround on the pulley system.

 

[artbot]

we had an issue with a 6x10 CET fk that was drifting about 1/8" over three feet into the print. after having every CET tech work with us, a motion control specialist come by, new motor, reset pully, pulled and tested the servo controllers, new encoder strip, new reader.... we finally talked to ice who is currently in china. he asked us to modify the acceleration length. poof gone. after weeks of frustration and a pile of money, it was fixed. the length of acceleration is something that i would alter. it has to do with the moment that the carriage changes direction and how much voltage should be sent to the motor. when modified the printer would come to a much more graceful stop and change of direction. you could be intermittently losing speed or getting a choppy ride at that point on the gantry. whatever the correct diagnosis is in the end, forget the techs. they really know nothing compared to ice and nicky.

where is this vertical banding? (middle, left, right)? did i miss this reading?

 

[Kaiser]

we had an issue with a 6x10 CET fk that was drifting about 1/8" over three feet into the print. after having every CET tech work with us, a motion control specialist come by, new motor, reset pully, pulled and tested the servo controllers, new encoder strip, new reader.... we finally talked to ice who is currently in china. he asked us to modify the acceleration length. poof gone. after weeks of frustration and a pile of money, it was fixed. the length of acceleration is something that i would alter. it has to do with the moment that the carriage changes direction and how much voltage should be sent to the motor. when modified the printer would come to a much more graceful stop and change of direction. you could be intermittently losing speed or getting a choppy ride at that point on the gantry. whatever the correct diagnosis is in the end, forget the techs. they really know nothing compared to ice and nicky.

where is this vertical banding? (middle, left, right)? did i miss this reading?

Its all through the print. All along the table in increments of about 1 inch. Before the tech adjusted the belt tension the badning was every 2.5 inches.

 

[artbot]

in that case, i'd set up a file of a tiny grid. composite black then 100% C, 100% M, 100%, 100% Y, 100% K (use a cmyk file and turn off icc profiles). the grid should be about 1cm spacing and the lines themselves should be only one pixel's width. after printing, inspect the print with a loupe to see if there is electric abortions causing the banding. i'd set the rip up at 360 uni no extract. you don't want resolution to cover up the issue. you want to see the head's output in it's most raw form. you should be able to tell if the dots are consistent but just bumping around with bad targeting or if the voltage is crapping out and creating the bands.

 

[Kaiser]

in that case, i'd set up a file of a tiny grid. composite black then 100% C, 100% M, 100%, 100% Y, 100% K (use a cmyk file and turn off icc profiles). the grid should be about 1cm spacing and the lines themselves should be only one pixel's width. after printing, inspect the print with a loupe to see if there is electric abortions causing the banding. i'd set the rip up at 360 uni no extract. you don't want resolution to cover up the issue. you want to see the head's output in it's most raw form. you should be able to tell if the dots are consistent but just bumping around with bad targeting or if the voltage is crapping out and creating the bands.

Once the profiler has finished im going to do just that. Trying to check if its due to ink limits for now. If the issue hasnt been cleared I will shoot the grid through and check.
Gee artbot... thanks for the guidance mate. You're a star!

 

[Kaiser]

we had an issue with a 6x10 CET fk that was drifting about 1/8" over three feet into the print. after having every CET tech work with us, a motion control specialist come by, new motor, reset pully, pulled and tested the servo controllers, new encoder strip, new reader.... we finally talked to ice who is currently in china. he asked us to modify the acceleration length. poof gone. after weeks of frustration and a pile of money, it was fixed. the length of acceleration is something that i would alter. it has to do with the moment that the carriage changes direction and how much voltage should be sent to the motor. when modified the printer would come to a much more graceful stop and change of direction. you could be intermittently losing speed or getting a choppy ride at that point on the gantry. whatever the correct diagnosis is in the end, forget the techs. they really know nothing compared to ice and nicky.

where is this vertical banding? (middle, left, right)? did i miss this reading?

Acceleration length didnt change anything...

Ive tried contacting nicky with the issue. Lets see what he says.

 

[Kaiser]

Stupid question or not....

The Flora machine is driven with a teflon carraige belt right? Would a steel belt similar to the Daytonas or Rasteks make any difference where this issue is concerned?
Just a shot in the dark....
I had great print quality with our Rastek even though the reliability of the machine was terrible because of the plumbing and boards. The Flora seems to be stable in that department though.
A blend of the 2 machines would be great, hence my question....

I know this is going into the actual mechanical engineering of the printer so , once again.... a shot in the dark.

 

[artbot]

the only way that a belt being more or less stretchy would only affect maintaining zero. if the printer is producing vertical banding that might be explained by the carriage hanging at the same points. if when manually pushing the carriage across the gantry, and you don't feel resistance coming and going, then... did you do the grid test to see if the voltage is crapping out on and off during the print?

 

[Kaiser]

the only way that a belt being more or less stretchy would only affect maintaining zero. if the printer is producing vertical banding that might be explained by the carriage hanging at the same points. if when manually pushing the carriage across the gantry, and you don't feel resistance coming and going, then... did you do the grid test to see if the voltage is crapping out on and off during the print?

Manually pushing the carraige I do get some vibration. Its not a buttery smooth ride.
I have been in the middle of a huge order , 2 x 10 hour shifts but luckily enough the majority is photographic images without too many solid colours so I can print. Once I finish off what I have in hands I am going to do the grid test. I should be able to report back within the next 3 hours or so. All the other testing brought back nothing unfortunately.