Need Help Vinyl Failure Detectives needed!

[Kernersville Vinyl]

Facts: Vinyl on newer tankers (1-3) years is failing whereas older tankers (3+ years) still look fine.
The installer claims they used the same 3M premium vinyl and laminates they have always used.
The company that cleans and maintains the tankers says they have used the same approved cleaning products and submitted samples to 3M for analysis. They also point out that if the cleaner was the problem then it should be affecting all the tankers and not just the ones most recently wrapped. The cleaning company believes the installer made a mistake and used an inferior vinyl or laminate.

Based on what you see and just read, what do you think?

 

[Geneva Olson]

It looks like it's not laminated. Perhaps they forgot to laminate.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Yeah I second that, looks like the ink has been removed with some type of chemical, which wouldn't happen if it was laminated. But the installer would notice right away if it wasn;t laminated!

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

what's funny is a got a sample of the material from one of the bad tankers and the first thing I said to myself was "this doesn't look like it is laminated..."

 

[2B]

what's funny is a got a sample of the material from one of the bad tankers and the first thing I said to myself was "this doesn't look like it is laminated..."

This looks like it was latex printed and no lamination

the first two images also strengthen the case of lacking lamination with how the "splatter" is running over the graphics

 

[CanuckSigns]

What role did you play in the original job? you didn't install it, and I assume you didn't print it since you don't know if it was laminated or not.

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

What role did you play in the original job? you didn't install it, and I assume you didn't print it since you don't know if it was laminated or no

Yeah, looking at the streaks left down the side from it rubbing something, it sure doesn't look laminated. Never seen a print bleed ink before tearing...
Get some aggressive cleaner, cut a small section off the failed wrap sample that you have, and see if it takes the ink off. If it takes ink, surely there is no laminate.
Edit: Or put a micrometer on it to determine the thickness, look up the material thickness as well as the laminate, see what jives with what.

Both are great ideas, thanks

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

so I did an experiment this morning.
I took two signs and laminated one, the other was only printed using and HP Latex 365 Printer.

Using Goof-off I rubbed the laminated one, you can see it damaged the laminate but did not touch the ink as the rag is clean.
On the one without laminate the Goof-Off lifted the ink right away.
On the sample from the tanker, I again used the Goof-Off and the ink was lifted from the vinyl.

Is there anything I could be missing?

 

[Gino]

You have a few things going on and answers up front might help quite a bit.

You indicated the vinyl and laminate are the same as before.
However, you did a test using a latex machine with and without a laminate. How do you know the other one was latex and did you use the same vinyl ?? In other words.... did you duplicate all the components ??
Why did you conduct a test, if you had nothing to do with it any of the originals ??

Who is responsible for what part of this job ??

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

defo looks like it isn't laminated. the runs in the print from chemical cleaning pretty much confirm this. it's on the installer if they ran the prints for this install.

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

You have a few things going on and answers up front might help quite a bit.

You indicated the vinyl and laminate are the same as before.
However, you did a test using a latex machine with and without a laminate. How do you know the other one was latex and did you use the same vinyl ?? In other words.... did you duplicate all the components ??
Why did you conduct a test, if you had nothing to do with it any of the originals ??

Who is responsible for what part of this job ??

I was asked to consult on what may have gone wrong, no idea what machine was used to print originally, the installer claims only premium 3M vinyl and laminates were used, 3M has been dragging it's feet on testing the sample...

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

I think 3m will get to the bottom of it with their analysis pretty quickly.
Then let you know in 3 months once it's been rubber stamped...

that sounds about right!

 

[spectrum maine]

looks like liquid laminate at best. somebody half assed the job

 

[XtremeXccessories]

Does 3M have the same delamination issue that Avery does when printing on HP Latex? Were the graphics transfer taped and maybe pulled the lam off with it?

 

[Geneva Olson]

Well I'm wondering why any of this matters? It looks like it's unlaminated latex printed. Since you know what's wrong, fix it and move on...It seems kind of pointless to go through a bunch of scenarios when you know how to fix it.

Just my 2 cents. for what it's worth..

 

[XtremeXccessories]

Well I'm wondering why any of this matters? It looks like it's unlaminated latex printed. Since you know what's wrong, fix it and move on...It seems kind of pointless to go through a bunch of scenarios when you know how to fix it.

Just my 2 cents. for what it's worth..

Well I'm wondering why you posted this? It looks like you don't care. Since you don't care, close this thread and move on...It seems kind of pointless to go through a bunch of steps to post when you could just go about your day.

Just my 2 cents. for what it's worth..

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

Does 3M have the same delamination issue that Avery does when printing on HP Latex? Were the graphics transfer taped and maybe pulled the lam off with it?

no idea... the company that did the installation is HUGE... not a mom and pop

 

[Kernersville Vinyl]

to all who responded helpfully, thank you for your time, thread closed

 

[Gino]

Doesn't seem closed to me.