when you are creating a waiver how many are actually done by a lawyer vs just compiling big words till everything is covered?

RANT, this is the reason for the post.

Last week had 3 used/abused handicap signs dropped off for refacing, told the customer "these are used signs bent, the reface will show these through the new material face, are you ok with this" scuffed up and tears in the old vinyl (so old the screen printed white had dissolved in the sun) actually had to remove screws from the substrate while the customer stood there.

scraped the faces down got most the old crystallized off and refaced, came in today and hear nothing but complaints on how bad we are at installing and what are we going to do to fix the "bubbles" in the vinyl. to which I politely reminded you said reface and understood that the old surface was not suggested.

so back to the request is there a "reface waiver" that outlines these issues? I don't see the use in lawyer fees for these budget type signs and have already raised the price on refaces to hopefully avoid in the future.
We have already created waivers for wraps both install & removals. but was being lazy and curious if others have this problem


after this episode I agree completely, there is too much hassle with refacing
or if they have to have new faces on the old substrate then they install.

thanks for the confirmation, down with the bottom price dwellers who have to have refaces

yeah they were 12x18 080 alum.
when you are creating a waiver how many are actually done by a lawyer vs just compiling big words till everything is covered?

Have to be careful with that. Just because it's in a contract that they signed, doesn't mean that it's binding. Not all waivers are very specific on what needs to be in there or how it is worded or even if that is the case like your average customer is going to know what should or shouldn't be in a contract, but some are very specific and if you miss any one step it makes the whole thing null and void.

However, I have to agree with Pat on something like this (and it seems like you do as well) just not worth it. It's along the lines of people bringing in their own stuff for me to use. Some are sub par quality, but I do have waivers in place and that typically scares them off, so it can be beneficial in other ways as well.


i turn those down daily. Tell them it's cheaper to do it on new substrate then for you to clean it off.

no thanks


I like to use the phrase "Turd Polishing".

I'm certain many of you know or have used it before. We explain to the customer as OP did, but the additional labor typically makes it cost prohibitive to the customer. They then either A) go for new product. Or B) take the turd to another shop.

To be clear, we often will do this for long time/ large entity customers but this is only after they have been given the same options. They usually get it.

Be careful with the waiver. I have heard from several legal type clients that signing a waiver, if reviewed in court, is just an admission of guilt. "I knew said product would fail or was unsafe, but willingly sold it anyway." But that is here is So Cal...

Pat Whatley

I've always told them up front it's going to look like crap. It will look like somebody half-assed patched over the top, there will be bubbles, possibly wrinkles, and the patch might even look crooked. Never had a complaint to my face, I'm sure there have been some somewhere else. You're dealing with cheap people, you just have to roll with their complaints.


Premium Subscriber
We've many times re-faced old signs, but only... when we originally provided them.

We did one last week. The sign was 7 years old, 42" x 70" with digitally printed vinyl. It took us 1/2 hour to remove old vinyl, clean and prep it. Much less than a new piece of material. It was 3/4" PVC.

As mentioned, we will decide pretty much on the spot, if it's worth re-doing or not. The comeback is always the same.... it will cost more for us to try and make this one useable and even then, it's an inferior piece of material vs. new material. In your head, do the math and make it come out to about the same and they will always go new.