Wall Graphic adhesion issue

[LoGl]

I know this topic has been covered somewhat, and I think I know what has to be done, but before I make a firm decision I wonder if anyone has a better option.

My customer owns a gym. They constructed a big wall and wanted to put their logo on it. The logo area is approx. 3'h x 6'w, it is cut letters, basically.
I have typically not had any problems adhering a graphic to a painted wall, and so when he asked if I could mount on a plywood wall, I said yes, as long
as it was painted. And it was. Painted Black. But now it seems like more of a flat/matte black and this is where the problem begins.

Had I just decided right away not to install it, then I would have gone a different route. But...I attempted to install, and i would say as much as 90% of
the letters have stayed adhered to wall. However, some edges were just not. I had to go back the next day to do window lettering and noticed some edges loose.
So I got up on the ladder, applied a little heat to see if I could get it conform a little better to the unevenness of the wood and then be all set.

But....customer isn't thrilled with what he is seeing and wants a solution. Not that I blame him.

I was thinking that possibly using 3M edge sealer might work, however, I see that it can not come in contact with paint, and therefore I am concerned that this might be a disaster waiting to happen. Has anyone tried this???

I wondered if there was any other product that Imight be able to add to the underneath of the edges that are not staying down....some sort of glue, etc?

In the end, I believe I will likely have to take the graphic down....have the customer put some sort of gloss clear over the black, then I re-letter and call it a day.

You win some, you lose some....but I value your opinions, and would like to hear them. Thanks all!

 

[rdm01]

What type of vinyl did you use?

 

[LoGl]

Calendered oracal

 

[Dennis422]

When was the wall painted? If recently, it is possible that is still outgasing the paint. That is why vinyl is not sticking to it.

 

[LoGl]

That is true. I do not know that for sure, but it could be as recently as a couple of weeks, I will need to find out.

But in your opinion, do you think I should have trouble with a matte/flat finish?

 

[Zac]

I would not use 3M Edge sealer. It's a great product but It will dry shiny and any runs or excess/edge will stand out on the flat wall paint.

You'll have trouble with the matte finish with anything that doesn't really have an aggressive tack. I usually use contour cut IJ35 for any wall lettering but I've always had trouble when using a cut vinyl like Oracal 751. But a torch always helps.

 

[Billct2]

Was the paint one of those "scubbable" kinds?

 

[300mphGraphics]

A real cool option for a project like this would be to sub to a merchant member with a flatbed/die cut setup and print to pvc. Gives the project depth, class, full color options and no mounting to wall issues. The last two projects we did this way was for a fancy wedding facility and the local school districts board room. Just an idea for future projects.

 

[eahicks]

Many places are using the paint with additives to make cleaning marks and stains easier, and vinyl has a hard time sticking to it. I would advise using a cast vinyl, and a low tack pre-mask. Makes it conform to any textures better, and the low tack is easier to peel off and not take the vinyl with it. Also using a torch or heat gun helps it stick better, along with a felt squeegee. I've done plenty that had to resort to these methods.

 

[2B]

we are seeing this become an issue more and more with painted walls. we are even seeing issues with VHB tapes adhering properly.
The VOC count in the paint is what is making the difference. Low or no VOC paint will have to be prepped before graphics.
rubbing the area with alcohol or roughing the surface up usually is the best options

 

[Gino]

While many of the paints today do contain a certain amount of paint repellants called by other names, but just being flat paint... and most likely latex paint, you have very little surface area for the vinyl to adhere.

I would remove the graphics at no charge, ask him to paint the wall with a semi-gloss acrylic enamel and make sure none of the repellents are in it and then put the graphics on again..... all at no charge, also.

Now, stop doing walls unless you can control the kinda paint being used. ​

 

[Bly]

Those super flat paint finishes - nothing really will stick unless you want to go Arlon DPF8000 or something else with crazy aggressive adhesive.
Paint type is a constant issue with wall graphics.
Unless I can get something in writing that it's not Wash N Wear paint I now go onsite and do an adhesion test before production.

 

[LoGl]

Wow. I did not know that there were that many issues with paint these days. That explains a lot, because I have never had this problem before (but it has been a while since I have had to apply direct on a wall.

I will give my customer the option to paint with enamel or to apply graphic to a backing and then hang it. Both great suggestions from you guys. I suspect, being a gym, he will want to just give the wall a coat of paint, but you never know.

I did apply heat and that did not really do much to help. And like I said, 90% of the letters were fully adhering....but some was not. I was hoping for a simpler fix (edge sealer) but realize that it probably wasn't the best idea in the world.

Thanks again everyone. Keep on keeping on!

Ahhhhh.....the life of a sign shop!!

 

[truckgraphics]

Here's an idea...In a pinch, you could try spraying the edge or over the decal with clear Acrylic (Krylon) spray paint - or if able, removing the decal and spraying the area first. Now, if it was a beautifully painted drywall wall, you might not want to do this, but this could work for plywood....Not long ago we had trouble getting a decal to stick to a painted plywood finish...Sprayed some Krylon on it, dried until tacky and it worked fine...No idea of the chemistry involved here or how long it will last (our project didn't have to last long) but it was a quick and dirty solution and the customer was very pleased with the result. We used UV-Resistant Clear Krylon, but that's just because it happened to be on the shelf.

 

[Ultimate13]

We gave up trying to install wall graphics unless it is a wrap with Phototex or 3M, the new paints and the amount of different textures make it a headache. This was our solution and will be for anyone that asks. 1/4" acrylic with standoffs in the corners. This one is 4' x 2' and went up beautifully, not a ton more money and the perceived value is way more for the customer. Also goes up in minutes so the on site time is quick.

 

[Dennis422]

Here is the project I did 2 weeks ago.
Orafol 3628 wall mural film on a latex paint wall. Went on smooth with no issues and no peeling off at all.
If the wall is smooth and paint is completely cured/outgassed, there should be any issues with a decent films.

 

[rossmosh]

Everyone's covered the issue with paints. Simply put you can't expect vinyl to stick to any paint. You have to be particular. 100% latex with the least amount of additives is always the best.

The way I see it you have three main options.

1. Put the vinyl on a piece of substrate. You could do a contour cut or a straight rectangular cut. This could potentially end up making the project look much nicer.
2. Just switch to cut letters and move on with your life. It's more expensive but it is what it is.
3. Repaint the wall with a vinyl friendly paint.

 

[petepaz]

hi tack vinyl that sh#* sticks to anything. arlon pdf 8000, avery-hi-tack i think all brands have a version of it

 

[Antnee]

Use a heat gun and felt to push it down.