We have a vaccine

[unclebun]

I'll agree with the above. When my wife and I had it about a month and a half ago, for two days she thought she was having allergy flareup from pollen, but then she had a fever for about 3 days off and on, was very tired, and had some cold symptoms. By day 5 she was feeling well. But a day or two later redeveloped fever and had a sinus infection (which she is prone to get as an allergy sufferer). She took antibiotics for that and once it cleared up she has been fine. I had some post-nasal drainage and scratchy throat for about 2-3 days, no fever, no tiredness. It was nowhere near as bad as when my wife got Influenza B from a coworker in February.

Some people I know that got it around that time were a little worse, but the vast majority had a something similar.

As far as Pfizer's announcement timing, it is curious that originally they were set to announce their findings once they had reached a total of 32 study participants who had come down with COVID. However in the third week of October, FDA officials met with them and they decided to make it 62 cases, which they had not reached yet, although they did have the 32. The claim at the time was that it would be still quite a while before they would reach the 62 cases. Then just yesterday they announce they have had 94 participants get COVID.

As to the idea that they didn't get any federal government money, fact checking shows that although they did not take any research money from the president's Light Speed operation, choosing to use their own money, they did take $1.9 billion for advance production of doses to be delivered upon approval. This is how the Light Speed program was going to be able to produce an immunization that could be delivered in large numbers immediately upon approval. The doses were and are being manufactured long before the research and approval process are completed. If the particular drug ends up not working or not being approved, the drug company was still paid for it by the program. But if it works and is approved, the doses are already sitting waiting to be distributed.

 

[Gino]

I was in the hospital at the end of August for 8 days with a problem. Nothing at all covid related. However, the floor I was on at first was the covid19 building entirely, but back around May and June, they cleared it out. Did I ever hear the covid 19 stories and what it's really all about. It's ALL about the mighty dollar. The more patients they can push through with any covid19 possibilities, it automatically became a covid19 statistic. Also, the hospital got over 3 times the money for that case. There were all kindsa precautions being taken while I was there, but it was a laughing joke, when you talked to these nurses and whatnot one-on-one. Doctors did not spread any gossip. It was very eye opening to say the least. I can't tell ya how many covid19 cases there were, but they tried to sway it that way. It's called Big Pharmaceuticals.

 

[Bobby H]

I do believe this thread is heading right down the toilet, like so many other threads, when people start acting as if they really know who is to blame or who did or did not do this or that.

It's now a matter of public record and historical fact the leaders who are to blame for the United States' deplorable response to this pandemic. There is nothing subjective about it at all. The American public is absolutely on the hook for this $#!+ show too. Tens of millions of knuckleheads continue to act like this pandemic is no big deal, that it's a media conspiracy. So they go about life as usual, doing things in defiance of medical guidelines or civic orders. Hold big parties. Don't wear a facemask (or wear it with one's nose sticking out, or wear the mask as a chin strap). Take all kinds of stupid risks. And help spread the disease and potentially kill other people.

So let me get this straight, they are touting a vaccine that has a 90% efficacy rate as huge news. You know what else has a better than 90% efficacy rate? The Human Immune System against this virus! As a matter of fact, it has a better than 99% success rate for people under 70.

Again, the fatality rate of COVID-19 is a VARIABLE thing. It's not a flat number occurring in a vacuum under steady conditions. We can easily have hundreds of thousands more Americans dying of COVID-19, or even millions, between now and the middle of next year. It all depends on our choices. If COVID-19 had a flat 1% fatality rate and everyone in America went through a bout of it you would have 3.28 million dead Americans.

If the number of SARS-CoV-2 cases is limited through preventive measures, thus limiting the number of hospitalizations, our medical system will be far more successful treating the severe COVID-19 cases they do see. That pushes the fatality rate way down. If we throw caution to the wind and let SARS-CoV-2 spread uncontrolled that will overload hospitals with COVID-19 patients. The fatality rate dramatically increases. During the worst of Italy's first COVID-19 wave 1 out every 10 people testing positive were dying of it. Their hospitals were drowning in a tidal wave of COVID-19 patients. They were literally having to deny treatment older, more at-risk patients, allowing them to die so they could save treat those with better chances of survival.

Personally battling COVID-19 is not a binary live-or-die equation either. Many people who have survived COVID-19 have been left with lasting issues. I have an Aunt who was a "long hauler," she was confined to her home for over 2 months, testing positive the whole time. Now that the virus is finally clear from her system she has all kinds of breathing problems. She continues to have terrible nightmares first brought on by the SARS-CoV-2 infection. And she never had to be hospitalized.

 

[rossmosh]

This virus hit the US hard in mid-March. By May, we had a decent enough understanding of how it spreads and what to do and not to do.

So, approximately 6 months later and it's pretty clear an alarming number of Americans still don't understand how this virus spreads, why certain things are important, and how a vaccine taken by a very high percentage of the population combined with social distancing / wearing a mask helps the world move back to "normal".

But let's not do those things because who wants to go back to some semblance of normal? I know I love hearing about Covid all the time.

 

[Bly]

As much as we like to rag on government action (or inaction) a lot of the positive results are based on a populace that is willing to listen to the experts and follow some temporary rules to ensure the greater good of society.

The other important thing is the government is giving people financial support to help when their job or business is affected by lockdowns.
They effectively stopped all international travel so tourism and education industries have virtually disappeared and they are a big sector here.
Obviously if your business or job is ruined you won't feel like doing the right thing but when there's targeted welfare it means you can do it.

 

[Bobby H]

Did I ever hear the covid 19 stories and what it's really all about. It's ALL about the mighty dollar. The more patients they can push through with any covid19 possibilities, it automatically became a covid19 statistic. Also, the hospital got over 3 times the money for that case.

That's a bunch of tall tale garbage. I've heard all kinds of variations of that myth. A laughable one is people getting killed in car accidents getting classified as COVID-19 deaths to get that "covid bonus." These stories all boil down to an accusation hospitals everywhere are exaggerating or falsifying reports on patients to get more money from Medicare.

This pandemic is not a money making bonanza for the health care industry. On the whole, hospitals are losing money due to this pandemic.

Any hospitals that are treating COVID-19 patients have had to devote a lot of resources to the effort, such as isolating off part of a hospital and dividing up staff to treat such patients. Many kinds of non-emergency or elective treatments and surgeries have had to be indefinitely delayed or cancelled. That greatly impacts a hospital's bottom line. So does carving off a big chunk of its ER and ICU bed capacity for exclusive use by COVID-19 patients. The situation is bad enough that hospitals have had to lay off nurses, technicians and other staff, especially if they're not trained to work in the ER or ICU.

The CARES Act is providing $100 billion in grants to American hospitals, but that money is meant as a relief package to offset big losses. It costs a hell of a lot of money for a COVID-19 patient to spend weeks on a ventilator in an ICU. That one bed could serve dozens of people in the same period of time. Hence the 3X Medicare pay-out. While there is potential for abuse, there doesn't appear to be real, documented cases of hospitals falsifying reports. There are also very severe penalties if a hospital or clinic is caught gaming the system to get more CARES Act money. We're talking everything from criminal charges for individuals to an entire hospital losing its accreditation and being forced to close.

So, approximately 6 months later and it's pretty clear an alarming number of Americans still don't understand how this virus spreads, why certain things are important, and how a vaccine taken by a very high percentage of the population combined with social distancing / wearing a mask helps the world move back to "normal".

I think the problem has less to do with these people not understanding how this virus spreads and affects people and has more to do with them being defiant of safety precautions as a statement of political ideology or deliberate ignorance.

Edit: FYI for anyone who would like to see a visual explanation of how the SARS-CoV-2 virus and COVID-19 disease works, I recommend this video from Kurzgesagt - In a Nutshell:

 

[Gino]

That's a bunch of tall tale garbage. I've heard all kinds of variations of that myth. A laughable one is people getting killed in car accidents getting classified as COVID-19 deaths to get that "covid bonus." These stories all boil down to an accusation hospitals everywhere are exaggerating or falsifying reports on patients to get more money from Medicare.

This pandemic is not a money making bonanza for the health care industry. On the whole, hospitals are losing money due to this pandemic.

Any hospitals that are treating COVID-19 patients have had to devote a lot of resources to the effort, such as isolating off part of a hospital and dividing up staff to treat such patients. Many kinds of non-emergency or elective treatments and surgeries have had to be indefinitely delayed or cancelled. That greatly impacts a hospital's bottom line. So does carving off a big chunk of its ER and ICU bed capacity for exclusive use by COVID-19 patients. The situation is bad enough that hospitals have had to lay off nurses, technicians and other staff, especially if they're not trained to work in the ER or ICU.

The CARES Act is providing $100 billion in grants to American hospitals, but that money is meant as a relief package to offset big losses. It costs a hell of a lot of money for a COVID-19 patient to spend weeks on a ventilator in an ICU. That one bed could serve dozens of people in the same period of time. Hence the 3X Medicare pay-out. While there is potential for abuse, there doesn't appear to be real, documented cases of hospitals falsifying reports. There are also very severe penalties if a hospital or clinic is caught gaming the system to get more CARES Act money. We're talking everything from criminal charges for individuals to an entire hospital losing its accreditation and being forced to close.



I think the problem has less to do with these people not understanding how this virus spreads and affects people and has more to do with them being defiant of safety precautions as a statement of political ideology or deliberate ignorance.

Call it however you wanna see it or believe it. Its all about the mighty buck and they are taking advantage of it wherever and whenever they can or see fit. You said yourself, hospitals are losing money. How else to make it up then to start bringing it in from a different avenue..... or is that revenue ??

Your take on this sh!t being political is half right and what is politics all about ?? Yep..... money and power. When you can keep 1/2 the country under wraps to get things done your way, then why not ?? Why else are people peacefully rioting in the streets and burning down businesses, homes and killing people ?? Because the politicians are making out well. Just look at the last election.

I admit, there's a certain amount of caution and self discipline needed to keep from getting this covid19 stuff, but that goes for everything running rampant in our world today. When did y'all become such medical engineers and scientists. ALL of you are just repeating what someone said to you. None of you know this sh!t first hand. Stick to the stuff ya know and stop guessing and contradicting everything and everyone who disagrees with you. That would be the smart thing. Wanna stay safe ?? Stay in your house and bubblewrap it. Cripes, you people are worse than Henny Penny.

 

[Bobby H]

I admit, there's a certain amount of caution and self discipline needed to keep from getting this covid19 stuff, but that goes for everything running rampant in our world today. When did y'all become such medical engineers and scientists. ALL of you are just repeating what someone said to you.

Yeah, I'm repeating what doctors and scientists who are expert on the subject have said. Wanna fact check me? Go right ahead. But it's going to take more than your opinion to refute any of it.

 

[Gino]

Yeah, I'm repeating what doctors and scientists who are expert on the subject have said. Wanna fact check me? Go right ahead. But it's going to take more than your opinion to refute any of it.

Do you realize or even understand how many doctors and scientists have totally different views...... and spreading the word in countless different ways ??
​

However, you are afterall, repeating all of this. You have nothing first hand, do you ?? Some of mine is opinions and others is first hand being in the hospital for 8 days and listening to the various people, from ONE hospital alone, but part of a large group.
​

At least when the toadster was still here, God rest his soul...... he gave us links and propaganda sites to go to. Then, we could refute what he said. This is all just hearsay, huh ??

Yeah well, it's late and time to go home and eat. I'm hungry and this sh!t is not worth talking to death anymore. It's as bad as politics and discussing all the new genders in the world.

 

[Bobby H]

Do you realize or even understand how many doctors and scientists have totally different views...... and spreading the word in countless different ways ??

Please explain in specifics how those doctors are differing in opinion with regard to simple guidelines to slow or prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2. They sound pretty unanimous to me in regard to steps like wearing a facemask in public, social distancing, limiting indoor gatherings and washing hands with soap on a frequent basis.

Oh, and this just in at the top of the national news. In the past 24 hours the United States set a new record of 165,868 confirmed SARS-CoV-2 cases. The nation has been reporting 100,000+ cases per day since November 3, with 4 of those days at over 120,000 cases. 160,000 is an alarming jump. Epidemiologists are warning the US daily case load could surpass 200,000 per day soon. Our local news reported the Tulsa metro area has run out of ICU beds. COVID-19 hospitalizations nationwide surpassed 59,000, the highest level since the pandemic began.

 

[Reveal1]

Apparently the world is about to end in Lawton Oklahoma. It must be some strange rare pocket of liberalism in OK not yet discovered. The rest of those in OK and in flyover country are working, sending our kids to school, being responsible and careful but realizing life, like driving down the interstate is a calculated risk (the interstate being far more dangerous) Someone has to pull the weight. I've had about enough politically motivated BS hysteria to last until the next election.

 

[GAC05]

When it comes out I'm going to ask for two. Just like voting, I want to make sure mine counts.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Jeezus... I can't wait for more "Spin"!

 

[SignosaurusRex]

 

[Bobby H]

Apparently the world is about to end in Lawton Oklahoma. It must be some strange rare pocket of liberalism in OK not yet discovered.

You can take your ad hominem insult and cram it. Since when is taking a few simple precautions a "liberal" thing? Playing it safe is literally a more conservative trait. I'm not asking at all for everything to go into lock-down mode. I'd prefer to keep the shop doors open. Until that new vaccine is available it's going to take everyone following some precautions to keep us from going into lock-down mode.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

A vaccine ain't gonna do jack §hi‡ other than create more medical issues for those that take it. Follow the F#%*ing science. Vaccines contain all kinds of crap that f's with your body as well as your natural immune system. Try doing a little research rather than taking some so called doctors advice for a change. They can only tell you what they are taught ...or told to to tell you. Oh yah... get the vaccine today...come back for a booster shot in two weeks... come back next year and do it all over again...and again... Sure, the vaccine is gonna be free??? Why??? Think about that for a second! NOTHING IS FREE! What's in that cocktail beyond the usual poisons in vaccines??? The human immune system when properly fueled is far stronger than a vaccine. Maybe you've had so many vaccines over the course of your life that another won't hurt you none, maybe you haven't. Even with a so-called 90% efficacy rating, there are one hell of a lot of variables yet to consider in that initial testing. The announcement of the vaccine is nothing short of premature ejaculate for the supposed incoming administration. Don't be fooled! In the meantime... wear a mask in public, be careful with social distancing, wash your hands and carry on. Welcome to a new normal. Get comfortable with it... we ain't never going back to what once was. Get that through your head right now. Your new "re-imagining" government won't allow it. They have so much more planned for you once you accept what they "give" for free.

 

[ikarasu]

You guys are hilarious. If it's not fighting over Trump/Biden... it's fighting over Covid/fake Covid.

It amazes me that some of you still think Covid is nothing. Remember when this all started... "It's just the flu, the flu kills more people, its fake news made up by democrats" How many of you remember saying that?... Because I remember a few of you that did.

Theres been 1.27 million deaths attributed to Covid. Low estimate for Influenza is 290 thousand... high estimate if 600,000... We're at over double the highest amount.

And yes... It's MAINLY old people. But so are the deaths from Influenza - What do we do? Tell everyone who is 60+, Army vets... doctors, people who built the economy/country you love so much that their life has come to an end and no longer matters because you couldn't be bothered to put on a mask, or inconvenience yourselves to give them a better chance? I thought you guys respected and looked up to your elders....

Not to mention it's already mutating - That 90% vaccine could be useless because people are too stupid to flatten / slow the spread that its jumping to animals then back to humans and now theres a whole different strain that may or may not even work. If people listened in the first place... It wouldnt be as bad as it is and maybe we would have some form of normalcy.

Instead... It's all a conspiracy. The democrats did it to make Trump look bad (The world hates trump so every country is in on it... Don't worry) Or it's all about money ( USA Makes most of their money on elective surgeries, not Covid... but lets put that aside... Canada, Sweden, many other countries offer free health care... We're not giving hospitals more if they discover a covid Case. Theres no reason for us to follow along on this conspiracy for you guys to make more money... or is there?)

But it's like arguing with a wall. I just hope when your dads/moms, or uncles/aunts or brothers/sisters, neighbor or loyal worker whos been working at your shop for 20 years to earn you an income gets Covid... it is a mild case and you don't have to go through what 1.27 million families have had to go through. You tell them, or the doctors who see 100's of deaths per day due to this Virus that theyre doing all this for the money and its one big scam brought on by big brother.


Me... I'll put on a mask when I'm out, stay in when I don't have to and be as safe as I can. I'm not afraid of Covid for myself, but I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror if I passed it along to someone and they suffered a slow, painful death all because I didn't want to be inconvenienced.

 

[netsol]

Pfizer (and its European partner) didn't take any government money or government involvement in the development of its vaccine. The timing is all coincidence. If anything, I'd say the announcement is more than a bit premature. If there was any motivation about making an announcement early it was 100% about keeping up appearances Pfizer is staying ahead of its rivals. More than a dozen other rival companies a far along with their own SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.

I think the announcement was premature because it will be what seems like a painfully long time before Pfizer's vaccine is widely available to the general public. Best case scenario: maybe by December (or late December) the vaccine will be initially available on an emergency basis to health care workers and first responders. They get dibs on the first doses. Pfizer then spreads it out to the most vulnerable members of our population. We could be well into Spring of 2021 before any of us "average, relatively healthy adults" can visit a clinic to get inoculated.

Here's another thing that's going to severely complicate delivering this new vaccine to the public: the vaccine requires extremely cold storage to stay viable, a temperature below -70°C (or -94°F). FedEx announced they're going to retrofit some of their trucks and jets to be able to deliver the vaccine. I think USPS is trying to gear up the same way. It's going to take time for the delivery infrastructure to be set up for this. From what I've heard, some of the rival vaccines in development also require this same kind of extreme cold storage.



The situation is getting really scary. Some of the states in the Northern Plains (the Dakotas, Iowa, etc) are currently seeing over 40% of all SARS-CoV-2 tests coming back as positive. We need to have the positivity rate at or below 5% to be making any progress against the spread of this virus.



Australia and New Zealand both have done a far better job at dealing with the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic than most nations. They saw the threat and took it very seriously very early. The US government made a long list of stupid mistakes and those mistakes cost many thousands of Americans their lives.

BOBBY

coincidence, you say?

after six months of banging the drum, playing games with statistics, and overstating the covid deaths, less than a full day after the first network called the race for biden, pfizer has an announcement that their vaccine is a success.

lets add a new category to the academy awards.

assuming trumps challenges lead to nothing, they will skew the numbers THE OTHER WAY, starting jan. 21.

 

[netsol]

sorry, i had to vent.
we are going to have a hell of a winter, but, masks are not effective against a virus, except that it keeps those who are infected from spreading to the same degree.

FOR THAT REASON, and that reason only, we are stuck with masks.

 

[signage]

the nature of virus's are to mutate, and no vaccine stops that, if they did we wouldn't have past viruses that keep coming up!