What is your quoting procedure?

[Gino]

Many here, just don't realize how this was set up. The sign industry is a business and in order to run it like a business, you must conduct yourself like a businessperson.

Most signs are gonna be custom, so in order to meet most codes and whatnot, a visit to the site is almost imperative. Years ago, according to if you were running a business by yourself or not..... you ran out and did the site survey. If you had employees, the one with the most business sense went out and took careful notes and maybe some pictures with an instamatic camera. Made measurements and now you're ready to quote. Either mail, fax or meet with the prospective customer and go over their needs. Internet, GPS and all these other.... let me sit at home and run a business from my dining room chair, perks weren't around. You made an honest effort to give good prices for your services or run the risk of not getting the job. Can't tell ya how many times while at a job site, I'd see other sign guys looking it over at the same time.

Today, y'all want the customer to do what we used to do. Great, then ya hafta rely on their knowledge and ability to give you what you need and you can't go back to them, if something goes wrong..... as you didn't really do your job.

Stop being lazy and either go out from 6am til 9am and do your site surveys or go in the evening, if ya don't wanna leave your kids at home alone. These backyard mechanics are a nuisance and are the main reason permits, engineer drawings and so many other things are needed today, cause ya never learned how to conduct a respectable business and do a respectable job.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I hate sales talk like this, it feels so forced and insincere, I know the guy selling me a sofa doesn't give a **** about my kids, why pretend he does?

better than listening to him talk about his 10 cats

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I don't do installed signs but I have to go around quite often to look at what people have in order to give estimates. We do the same things over and over so I can price just about anything over the phone but there are a lot of people that aren't comfortable sending the job without you putting your eyes on it first. Sometimes that is even better because it makes it harder for them to shop. It doesn't bother me much, it is a good opportunity to make a sales call and a face to face meeting with the right people can really do you a lot of good. I'm not advocating working for free or running around town like a mad man just to quote every tom dick and harry but like Gino said, you have to suck it up and do it. It is part of the job.

 

[gnubler]

Internet, GPS and all these other.... let me sit at home and run a business from my dining room chair, perks weren't around.

Those are perks? Personally, technology is making my life worse, not better. Makes it even harder to communicate with people...some insist on the back & forth text novellas, others put you on speaker phone in a room or car full of talking people, some don't want to talk at all and only email. The fragmented & overstimulated attention spans didn't exist like this a generation ago. I miss faxing proofs and getting a signed approval in return. Now it's a challenge just to get a "looks good" emailed back for approval.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Many here, just don't realize how this was set up. The sign industry is a business and in order to run it like a business, you must conduct yourself like a businessperson.

Most signs are gonna be custom, so in order to meet most codes and whatnot, a visit to the site is almost imperative. Years ago, according to if you were running a business by yourself or not..... you ran out and did the site survey. If you had employees, the one with the most business sense went out and took careful notes and maybe some pictures with an instamatic camera. Made measurements and now you're ready to quote. Either mail, fax or meet with the prospective customer and go over their needs. Internet, GPS and all these other.... let me sit at home and run a business from my dining room chair, perks weren't around. You made an honest effort to give good prices for your services or run the risk of not getting the job. Can't tell ya how many times while at a job site, I'd see other sign guys looking it over at the same time.

Today, y'all want the customer to do what we used to do. Great, then ya hafta rely on their knowledge and ability to give you what you need and you can't go back to them, if something goes wrong..... as you didn't really do your job.

Stop being lazy and either go out from 6am til 9am and do your site surveys or go in the evening, if ya don't wanna leave your kids at home alone. These backyard mechanics are a nuisance and are the main reason permits, engineer drawings and so many other things are needed today, cause ya never learned how to conduct a respectable business and do a respectable job.

I understand your point. I think there is definitely still a place for site visits, but I think the point of the OP was trying to narrow down the number of site visits required. Yeah, I used to go out on site with a ladder and my little rolly wheel measuring device and took a couple pictures with a Polaroid camera. And from there fax over the drawing and quote. A common question was, "do you have a color fax?" We did those things because we didn't have cameras on our phone, or even a phone for that matter. Email barely existed and digital cameras were super expensive. Obviously Google Street View wasn't around yet. We didn't do it that way because it was the best way, but because it was the only way.

I also remember making appointments to meet with people and they would actually be there to meet you.

Heck I remember being limited to 8 characters for file names. I don't want to go back to those days either.

 

[binki]

If we have the artwork and know the materials, sizes and quantity then we can quote. Given that, we often see this....

We quote a big job which turns out to be a small job with 'probably' order more in the future. Or worse, they will check with other suppliers and order only what you are least expensive on.

Don't put too much time into it unless you charge up front for it.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Gino – you must be in Philly. Nobody else throws widdies.

 

[Gino]

Left over from stages.

Ha..... I hadda think for a minute, cause I was trying to see on the quotation board what you were referring to ?? I first thought you meant wooden darts and misspelled it, but then I saw the rope and remembered some people might still call it that.

 

[Simonsigns]

Many shops, including mine, offer "free quotes", but what does that entail and how do you approach it?

I can run through my entire list of questions with a customer over the phone or email and possibly throw out a ballpark cost based on a past job, but in most cases for custom signage a site visit is needed and then time to figure out costs. I don't bother asking customers what their budget is because they never have one. "I don't know" is the answer. I don't expect them to know what a sign might cost...I mean, most of the time I don't either until I run the numbers.

I don't charge upfront for site visits or sales calls - does anyone else do that in order to qualify a customer? I'm spending too much time quoting jobs that never happen. And by never I mean I wasn't outbid by another shop, I never see a sign go up so it's likely budget related or indecision. How do you minimize the time & effort put into quotes?

(This is sort of a spinoff of the recent thread Design Fees and Payment Upfront, but with a focus on the estimating/quoting process.)

if a potential costumer gives me the sizes and design of the sign they want I will provide a free qoute.
If I need to come out to site to mesure the facade for them they need to give me a $300 deposit. Once they pay that deposit i go to site, mesure, provide them with a rendering and qoute. If they go with it the $300 goes as a credit on the invoice. Most costumers pay the $300 and use us for the project. This keeps the overall overhead down and allows us to give our actual clients a better price on their signs.We are located in central jersey.
We don't have a sales person.
If I did have a salesperson I would have them go out and do this all for free but obviously that commission would be passed along to the customer.

 

[gnubler]

I love that idea. Keeps things much more streamlined and weeds out the window shoppers.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

This has been my experience exactly, and in the majority of projects it's hard to come up with a ballpark price without seeing what I'm getting into. Trying to get basic information from people is like pulling teeth. I have a quote request form on my website asking for all the minimum specs...dimensions, where is the sign going, brand new or reface, etc. Sure enough, got another one yesterday with zero information other than "I need some signs directing people to my place, how much would that cost?" I responded with a few basic questions and got back an even more retarded response, and no answers.

Those online quote request form are aggravating, especially for people who aren't familiar with sign design. The poor customer doesn't know what standard practices are or how the prices break down (they'll ask for a 50" x 50" sign, and have no idea that a 48" x 48" will be substantially less expensive). But more infuriating, for me at least, are websites that have a request portal, but no phone number or email anywhere on the website. I can get done with a phone call in a few minutes what might take days going back and forth with an "account manager" online. And while I'm at it, anybody that requires me to download an "app" to do business with them has just lost my business!

 

[Scotchbrite]

Basically there's two prices. One from the 3 big guys (dak, watchfire, optec) that are all in line with one another at a range of 10%. Then there's the other ones, that come in at half price, plus all the headaches in the world...

We've installed a few of the cheap ones that customers purchased online and at least we know where to tell someone to go look at what a cheap display gets you. I could never sell one with all the issues I've seen.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

This has been my experience exactly, and in the majority of projects it's hard to come up with a ballpark price without seeing what I'm getting into. Trying to get basic information from people is like pulling teeth. I have a quote request form on my website asking for all the minimum specs...dimensions, where is the sign going, brand new or reface, etc. Sure enough, got another one yesterday with zero information other than "I need some signs directing people to my place, how much would that cost?" I responded with a few basic questions and got back an even more retarded response, and no answers.

When I get request like that I just ignore them... There is no helping someone that thinks that's all the information I need to give them a price.

 

[Stacey K]

Im careful not
To spend much time on smaller orders and people who need a price first. I just had a guy send me artwork for 8 stickers at “around 3”s” circle stickers and then one additional one. He never asked the price, said no rush at all, was super friendly. I ended up throwing them with another order and had them done same day. My model airplane guy same thing…never asks price and never a rush and gives 3 colors to choose from, whichever one is laying around. I don’t mind these people! What I hate is if these same people would ask, “so how much for 8? And how much for 12? What about 2” instead?” Screw you buddy…there’s the door. You want your stickers or not?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Sticker Nazi. "No sticker for you!"

 

[Scotchbrite]

Im careful not
To spend much time on smaller orders and people who need a price first. I just had a guy send me artwork for 8 stickers at “around 3”s” circle stickers and then one additional one. He never asked the price, said no rush at all, was super friendly. I ended up throwing them with another order and had them done same day. My model airplane guy same thing…never asks price and never a rush and gives 3 colors to choose from, whichever one is laying around. I don’t mind these people! What I hate is if these same people would ask, “so how much for 8? And how much for 12? What about 2” instead?” Screw you buddy…there’s the door. You want your stickers or not?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sometimes I think that's how people try to get one over on you. I feel like they are hoping you will misquote something by throwing out a bunch of "what if's".

 

[Stacey K]

Sometimes I think that's how people try to get one over on you. I feel like they are hoping you will misquote something by throwing out a bunch of "what if's".

I agree! I can recall one time I just made some numbers up off the top of my head when I did the invoice, doing the math quickly and then was called out on my percentages of discounts and how it made no sense LOL Like quantity of 2 was a 15%, qty of 4 12% an then qty of 6 17%....I don't remember how I explained it but I probably just "it is what it is" and left it go.

Just had a guy in this morning and never asked for a price, just do it, never seen him before, back window and 2 side windows of window perf. I had another call who I gave ballpark range to and he said, "Oh that sounds great! I was not sure if this is $500 or $5000, I really had no clue, I'll stop in later with my truck so you can measure." - Those are my very favorite customers!!!

 

[Gino]

I agree! I can recall one time I just made some numbers up off the top of my head when I did the invoice, doing the math quickly and then was called out on my percentages of discounts and how it made no sense LOL Like quantity of 2 was a 15%, qty of 4 12% an then qty of 6 17%....I don't remember how I explained it but I probably just "it is what it is" and left it go.

Just had a guy in this morning and never asked for a price, just do it, never seen him before, back window and 2 side windows of window perf. I had another call who I gave ballpark range to and he said, "Oh that sounds great! I was not sure if this is $500 or $5000, I really had no clue, I'll stop in later with my truck so you can measure." - Those are my very favorite customers!!!

For this reason..... and this reason alone, I never shoot from the hip with numbers. They'll always remember the lowest thing you said. I will tell them, this is based on totally made-up numbers and give completely unrealistic numbers. If they can't wait for a written quote, tell 'em to hit the pike.

 

[Scotchbrite]

I still give a price, even if they say it doesn't matter. I'm always afraid they will be upset if they thought it would be cheaper than it really is. The only time I wouldn't be worried is if they had already ordered the same thing before.

If we overquote something by too much, we will adjust the price down. We usually say something about being able to utilize some sort of efficiency that brought the price down. Usually the over price is because we think it will take longer than it ends up taking.

 

[Stacey K]

I'll make sure once I have all the information from both of them I'll give them a more concise price before going forward. I agree with Scotchbrite...just sending an invoice can be dangerous.

I find if I give a range then I'll also send a couple options in that price range once I have time to sit down and really get started on the job. I'll send a plain, maybe one color option at the low end and then a nicer option at the high end. Most of time people choose the mid-higher option. Sometimes customers don't think to put extra info on like FB logos, slogans, etc. More often than not I'm able to upsell some of these options because they hadn't even thought of it. I think it's part of my job to let them know they have more options than just what they came up with. I never pressure though - I always tell them these are just extra options that other people sometimes choose to add and if in the future they need to add anything, they just need call and we can add it easily since we keep all the artwork. It often works, it's like a lightbulb goes off and they think it's a good idea also.