What is your quoting procedure?

[Gino]

Guess I took this all wrong.

We don't start a job without a concrete contract/quotation signed, dated and the deposit if its over $500. Under $500, usually gets paid upfront.

I meant, out on a site or someone in the shop, we don't just shoot from the hip with guesses. We tell them we must figure out their quote to make sure we're not short-changing them OR us. If someone cannot wait a day or two for a quote, then they're just tire-kicking and just comparing what they already know/have. You can give a three-tier quotation and advise them or make recommendations, but they must be educated on what you and your shop is going to provide, so they can make a sound decision.

Now, if someone comes in for a set of magnetics or 10pcs 18" x 24" 2 sided Cor-X signs with stands, that's different. In fact, I have quite a few of our normal products already pre-figured in our quoting software, so we can give that number out immediately.

I thought we were talking about jobs that someone has you at their site and you're measuring, taking pictures and all kindsa stuff and asks you to ballpark it ?? Never, like in NEVER, give those idiots a number. Thye're the ones who will wanna hold you to, but you said...................

 

[Stacey K]

Guess I took this all wrong.

We don't start a job without a concrete contract/quotation signed, dated and the deposit if its over $500. Under $500, usually gets paid upfront.

I meant, out on a site or someone in the shop, we don't just shoot from the hip with guesses. We tell them we must figure out their quote to make sure we're not short-changing them OR us. If someone cannot wait a day or two for a quote, then they're just tire-kicking and just comparing what they already know/have. You can give a three-tier quotation and advise them or make recommendations, but they must be educated on what you and your shop is going to provide, so they can make a sound decision.

Now, if someone comes in for a set of magnetics or 10pcs 18" x 24" 2 sided Cor-X signs with stands, that's different. In fact, I have quite a few of our normal products already pre-figured in our quoting software, so we can give that number out immediately.

I thought we were talking about jobs that someone has you at their site and you're measuring, taking pictures and all kindsa stuff and asks you to ballpark it ?? Never, like in NEVER, give those idiots a number. Thye're the ones who will wanna hold you to, but you said...................

Ohhh...onsite I don't give off the hip prices either. I get very nervous to be on the spot and I can't even think of a number LOL

If people come in or call about "pre-figured" things, no problem. Or, if it's something I do often enough where I'm confident in the pricing then I give a range.

I am pretty confident with basic small business pick-up truck as I do a lot of them. I often start with a basic price of just one color doors and then think of my most expensive truck and tell them "3 color logo with tailgate and bed wording could be up to XX" or whatever. I have some pre-determined pricing that is pretty detailed for adding website, dot, bed wording, tailgates, etc. and I make sure I tell them upfront if they want to add any of those during the process it's extra. I got burned a couple times early on with people who would ask if they could add the website under the logo/phone...sure...then it's on the door instead, then it's add the city under the website. Suddenly, I was lettering 4 doors for the estimate of 2. Oh well, you learn by your mistakes or the mistakes of others and don't do it again.

 

[Scotchbrite]

We made the mistake of displaying a couple of portable signs in the reception area and not having pre-figured pricing on them. After the first couple of times someone saw them and said "Oh, I been wanting one of those! How much?" and then spending 5 minutes figuring it out, we realized we should have pre-figured prices for them handy.

 

[Stacey K]

We made the mistake of displaying a couple of portable signs in the reception area and not having pre-figured pricing on them. After the first couple of times someone saw them and said "Oh, I been wanting one of those! How much?" and then spending 5 minutes figuring it out, we realized we should have pre-figured prices for them handy.

You aren't the only one that has done that!

 

[Z SIGNS]

If it's somebody new the first thing I do is eyeball them from head to toe.
Just to check out what they spend on shirts , shoes, watches etc.
Next I look out the window to see what kind of car they drove in with.
If they look like they spend lots of money on quality I quote them very high.
High enough to make a profit.
If they look like they don't spend money I quote them very high so they go away.
Going out on the road and house calls is something you got to do and it's a gamble.
If I smell money I go out.

 

[MJ-507]

When quoting interior office wall signs one thing I've found that works pretty good is to have the client tape an 8 1/2 x 11" regular sheet of paper to the wall where the sign will go. Stand back directly in front of the paper and photograph the wall. Email me the photo so I can scale it up on the computer and have an idea what size letters they need. This eliminates the need for a site visit, which we charge for. It's not perfect but it can help create an estimate of the cost.

I had a boss once who, when a potential customer would insist on him making a site visit to quote some door graphics, would tell them "I know what a door is and how they look so, if you could send us a photo of yours with a dollar billed taped flat to it, we can work up a price, and after a deposit is made, design three layout options - all much sooner than if I have to visit you first to see the door in person." Doing that saved many hours of time and many miles on a vehicle considering that most of these potential customers were calling every shop in town looking for the cheapest price - not the best design or highest quality product.

 

[Stacey K]

I try to do that as often as I can also. However most of my business is done within 5 minutes from my shop so I often "swing over" on my way home etc.

I was going to order Estimate but I couldn't get a code. I tried GraphixCalc and ended subscribing. I used it several times yesterday and I really like it. The flow is a little clunky but once I got all my prices in it makes estimating pretty fast and accurate. I really liked my spreadsheet but to create a new sheet for each job was creating a very large file.

 

[signpro]

As its been mentioned a few times, i usually ESTIMATE for free on bigger projects. if they are comfortable with a price range, and are ready to move forward, then we'll figure out an exact quote. And i just tell them that. If they aren't comfortable in that price range, no point in putting more time into it. if they are, we collect the deposit, start artwork, then we have the full scope of the finished product, we get a quote to sign and artwork to sign, etc. Usually customers don't even know exactly what they want until halfway through a project anyways! ha. which can flux the price a little

 

[ADVANCED DISPLAY]

I usually do estimate that includes a range. Most people are ok with that. Sometimes I refuse to give an exact price if the job is small and they are being cheap about it. I tell them I'm very busy and I don't have time for exact pricing on multiple sizes - this is the range, period. Asking for a budget helps a lot! If they have a budget of $500 - I always through the next highest price in there too.

My son was painting for Bill at the local furniture store Saturday. He said a customer came in looking for a couch. Bill didn't talk about the couch at first, he asked personal questions like if he had kids, etc., asked him where he got his hat, then started about the couch. My son said, "Mom, by the time Bill was done talking, I wanted to buy the couch!" (yes, the person bought the couch!)

I'm not quite that good of a salesperson LOL

I always give a range. Always on the installation, seeing as I won't know how long or intense it'll be until we're doing it. And usually I'll give a range on the sign itself as well; almost always it'll depend on the artwork charge. It's been almost 5 years doing this for me and I'm nowhere near where I need to be however, I've found if I can confidently size up a project to give the customer a ballpark figure right away, it does weed out the less than serious ones and get us on good footing. I too feel like either myself or my manager are spending so much time quoting we could be spending PRODUCING, it makes me more personal when I don't get a job. But sometimes you'll quote something you wouldn't give a snowballs chance in hell of getting and after a year or so they come back ready to get things going. Funny world we live in.

 

[ADVANCED DISPLAY]

I try to do that as often as I can also. However most of my business is done within 5 minutes from my shop so I often "swing over" on my way home etc.

I was going to order Estimate but I couldn't get a code. I tried GraphixCalc and ended subscribing. I used it several times yesterday and I really like it. The flow is a little clunky but once I got all my prices in it makes estimating pretty fast and accurate. I really liked my spreadsheet but to create a new sheet for each job was creating a very large file.

Let me know how you like GraphixCalc after you've had a little bit of time with it. I'm not sure about software for this but if it's done right it may actually be a good idea.

 

[Robert Armerding]

Everyone receives free quotes/estimates. Now, if someone asks me to come out and quote on things after I do a survey, I charge for an on-site survey and get paid upfront for that.

Asking what their budget is, usually will tell ya if they've spoken and gotten quotes from other people.

Yesterday, I had a followup with a woman who wants a price on their community sign..... 8' x 11' Most likely carved and gilded. After asking her a few questions, she let me know what 2 of the other shops are bidding. I told her, the one sounded like a great price, she might wanna seriously consider it, the other one wasn't as good, but still not bad. After more talking, I found neither one included installation, permits or design time. However, it was still a good price for all the gold she wanted. She finally said, the others are not working with me, they are telling me what they will offer, not what I want. Then, I come to find out..... they both are quoting on a 3' x 8'. About a third of what she was asking from me. Now, how can you bid apples to apples when the other sign shops are cutting corners, cause they don't know how to make what she wants ??

Gino, kudos to you. This is a clear example of how listening closely, and attentively can make a huge difference. Your listening skills are at the core of what sets you apart from the competition.

 

[Stacey K]

Let me know how you like GraphixCalc after you've had a little bit of time with it. I'm not sure about software for this but if it's done right it may actually be a good idea.

I like it quite a bit. As I said, it's a bit clunky. Lots of times I skip the estimate and go directly for the work order but you can't do that, you have to create an estimate then change it to a work order. The pricing seems to be in line with what I typically charge. You can download a free trial.

 

[rydods]

I've used EstiMate Sign Software for years and it's hard to break away from it when you're so used to it, however, it's a separate program from our work flow programs we have used (trello/clickup) and I have been trying to tie everything together so my entire crew of 4 can estimate jobs through the workflow program. So I decided to create my own app sheet and after about 20 hours of messing around, I decided to pay someone through upwork to do it for me. I gave him the general outline for a workflow/estimating app. Long story short, after about a month we have an amazing workflow app that's built specifically how I wanted. He also put calculations together which allow us to price out and create items that we sell everyday or "build up" to create the price for our items. This part still needs some work but I knew it would.

It's gone so well that I've kept him on hourly to continue working on the app to refine it even more. I'd say that when it's fully completed, we'll probably have in about $3000 but I think it's well worth it.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I've used EstiMate Sign Software for years and it's hard to break away from it when you're so used to it, however, it's a separate program from our work flow programs we have used (trello/clickup) and I have been trying to tie everything together so my entire crew of 4 can estimate jobs through the workflow program. So I decided to create my own app sheet and after about 20 hours of messing around, I decided to pay someone through upwork to do it for me. I gave him the general outline for a workflow/estimating app. Long story short, after about a month we have an amazing workflow app that's built specifically how I wanted. He also put calculations together which allow us to price out and create items that we sell everyday or "build up" to create the price for our items. This part still needs some work but I knew it would.

It's gone so well that I've kept him on hourly to continue working on the app to refine it even more. I'd say that when it's fully completed, we'll probably have in about $3000 but I think it's well worth it.

Is your app standalone or do you need another program like filemaker to run it?

 

[White Haus]

I'd say that when it's fully completed, we'll probably have in about $3000 but I think it's well worth it.

I'd say that's a worthy investment if it's designed to work just the way you want it!

Also curious if it's Filemaker based or standalone app.

 

[rydods]

The app runs through google app sheet but you can find someone who uses filemaker or another program. This guy used google app sheet and that's what I was using to try to set up my app. I guess it was upwork that I stubbled upon and was really impressed by. Then I outlined what I was hoping to achieve in an app & put up a number I thought was reasonable for developers to bid on the job. Several were interested in developing the app so I just read their reviews and their responses to my requests and made my choice. My developer is from South Africa so there's a small window of back and forth communication each morning but it still works out well.

 

[CanuckSigns]

The app runs through google app sheet but you can find someone who uses filemaker or another program. This guy used google app sheet and that's what I was using to try to set up my app. I guess it was upwork that I stubbled upon and was really impressed by. Then I outlined what I was hoping to achieve in an app & put up a number I thought was reasonable for developers to bid on the job. Several were interested in developing the app so I just read their reviews and their responses to my requests and made my choice. My developer is from South Africa so there's a small window of back and forth communication each morning but it still works out well.

I'm always leery of setting up anything with Google, they seem to randomly discontinue products on a very regular basis, they just recently did away with Google My Business and made it part of Maps.

 

[White Haus]

The app runs through google app sheet but you can find someone who uses filemaker or another program. This guy used google app sheet and that's what I was using to try to set up my app. I guess it was upwork that I stubbled upon and was really impressed by. Then I outlined what I was hoping to achieve in an app & put up a number I thought was reasonable for developers to bid on the job. Several were interested in developing the app so I just read their reviews and their responses to my requests and made my choice. My developer is from South Africa so there's a small window of back and forth communication each morning but it still works out well.

Cool, thanks. Will check it out! I've never heard of that platform before.

 

[gnubler]

We don't start a job without a concrete contract/quotation signed, dated and the deposit if its over $500.

I've seen contracts mentioned a bit in random threads and am getting into a bigger job that I think warrants a contract. Does anyone have a basic template they can post, or describe what type of information is covered in a contract? What type of projects warrant using a contract? Mine involves open-ended labor costs, as in I can only estimate on the labor and can't offer a firm quote, and want to make sure that's understood and agreed upon.

 

[Gino]

If you google it, thousands upon thousands will come up. You just need to find one and tailor it to your specific shop and needs.

We made almost all of our quotations in quickbooks. I think I have about 5 or 6 types. In there, I have 100's of itemized line items, from a set of magnetics, to electric pylon signs and down to the number of screws I'll need. Only lately, do I hafta update the prices on these things, as they are changing almost daily. It also outlines using cranes, buckets, rental equipment, how many men and more for the installation portions. I have the various computer file creation blocks of time and how they work. Each and every line item can have it's own description and you can customized them also. I even have certain customers who buy a large amount of certain types of signs and have their group discounts already figured in. I type in EX and 5 customers from the exeter area come up and I just go & pick from there. It's really quite simple and very effective.

As for the labor portions, I also have varying estimates of digging conditions, various on-site circumstances and just plain dumbness for people not showing up and making our people wait around for nothing. It's all outlined up front. Clauses for unforeseen circumstances and just about every condition you can think of.