Who Is Using PVC, And...

[Joe Crumley]

PVC Panels

Our .75 PVC is coming from N. Glantz for $133.00@ and it's dense and smooth. The surfaces, front and back, look as though they need a little sanding for painting. This material routs at about the same speed as 30lb HDU but is much tougher and heavier.

The move to this material comes about due to hail damaged using HDU. This year I've replaced four signs like the one's posted below

My tests on adhesives has been interesting. I'm needing a slow set tough glue. So far I've found two that fill the bill. The first tested was "Trim Weld" which is white and comes in a duel calk type gun. The second and winner so far is PVC Gorilla Glue. This isn't anything like regular Gorilla adhesive. It's found in the hardware plumbing dept. The photo with the vise is showing a strength test. The handle becomes one with the square piece.

During a few spare moments I played around with a grind making wood grain. The photo is of a 12"X18" panel. It only took a minute or two to sculpt. It's an interesting technique to play with.

 

[Techman]

PVC Gorilla glue some good stuff.

PVC gorilla glue is PVC resin melted in Cyclic Amine solvents.

Weld On is acrylic resin melted in a solvent depending on how thick it is. Some is like water while others levels is like syrup.

Methylene Chloride
Methyl Acetate
Methyl Ethyl Ketone
Methyl Methacrylate Monomer

 

[synergy_jim]

no battle here..... I love PVC for certain applications also..... The issue is PVC has a horrendous coefficient of expansion. HDU and HDPE are much more dimensionally stable outdoors. for 90% of my applications, PVC just won't cut it.

 

[Joe Crumley]

PVC Panels

Jim,

You might be correct about the dimensional situation. I haven't seen it so far however the standard material is that way. One for sure misunderstood fact is, HDU will warp on it's on and expands. For years I've fought this problem. Most of these materials have separation issues when glue'd to each other. For that reason, for the most part, I don't combine them. With One exception, that is I often use Dibond in the centers of my large outdoor signs to keep them flat, but it's allowed to float.

My work is all dimensional and has been for years. I've tried about everything and enjoy experimenting. We'll give this a try and see how it works out but I'm sure HDU is history for us. When we do need it, Duna is the Calillac. SignFoam is a close second but Precision board is so gritty and soft we can't use it at all.

Feel free to visit our website to see what we do. We are always looking for suggestions and enjoying other sign artist visit. A workshop is in the consideration next year. We've had these on occasion and there lots of fun. Are you making dimensional signs?

Joe Crumley

 

[synergy_jim]

wow…. that surprises me… I'm a big fan of 30lb precision board, but I have not used the light weight stuff. Are you talking light weight, or don't like the 30lb either?

 

[Joe Crumley]

Jim,

We have often used 20lb Duna which is tougher and harder than 30lb Precision Board. No matter the density when the letters have small serrifs, dingbats, or little details it will break. Duna's common 15lb is like PB's 20lb. You gotta give this material a try.

Most of the repairs we are doing now were sign not made by us. Can't tell what manufacturer but for all HDU doesn't survive exposure to UV as seen in the photo's

I've looked at the photo's you've posted and they're excellent. Are you making many dimensional signs and do you have a website?

Joe Crumley

 

[synergy_jim]

www.synergysign.com


we've used about 75% PVC for our signs in the past. I've never been able to get past the inherent furriness of the material. No matter how sharp our tooling is, or adjusting feeds and speeds, we can never get rid of that. Precison board on the other hand has not had that issue. It feels way more like carving wood than PVC, hence why we switched.


I'd love to bounce ideas / things we've learned about the materials if you would care to. My email is on the website.

 

[Joe Crumley]

Jim,

I have no idea what you're using or talking about when it comes to fuzzy. As you can see in my photo's these panels are as smooth as glass. Fuzzies must come from some other materials. Formula 1 PVC routes slick.

One of the benefits of a forum is the exchange of idea's about materials. Private Emails wouldn't be as beneficial to those wanting to know.


Joe Crumley

 

[Gene@mpls]

I called two of my plastics suppliers (not sign supply's)- one didn't carry type 1 pvc and didn't seem interested, and the other can get it in a week and the
pricing was $430 for 1" (4x8) vs $178 for expanded. Gene

 

[synergy_jim]

Joe,

Therein lies the difference. I've been carving 1" PVC foam. At $430.00 a sheet for 1", I'm probably sticking with precision board.

 

[John Butto]

Joe,

Therein lies the difference. I've been carving 1" PVC foam. At $430.00 a sheet for 1", I'm probably sticking with precision board.

From what I have read on these posts is he, Joe, is not going with pvc because of the cost. It seems that it withstands the elements better from the looks of hail damage, and does not have the chips and breakage of letters as the foam products has. Also you would save I would think on finishes since it is a solid material and does not absorb as much primer and paints. I do not know Joe from Adam, but from what I see as his finished products, he looks like a pretty good fabricator of that kind of signage.

 

[synergy_jim]

I think I'm gonna wait til precision board lets me down, but I'm not totally opposed to trying this type1 pvc. One thing we have not discussed is environmental impact….

care to weigh in?

 

[Joe Crumley]

Been using PVC for a long time

Thanks for the update Gene,

Like you I've been looking for a proper identification of these products. I'm quiet sure what I have isn't Type 1. It seems the manufacturers don't have a good comparative standard. My friend Jamie Oxehham says that painting the

 

[Joe Crumley]

Who's is using PVC and can provide more info

Jim,

Good for you. I complement you with your success. I'm not trying to convert anyone away from what they are happy with.

I'm up for learning. Please show more of your 3d work.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

 

[synergy_jim]

for some reason, I cannot upload to my gallery….

here are some more pics

 

[synergy_jim]

more pics

 

[player]

Nice work!

Could you tell me about the background on the Village Of Strasburg sign?

How it was created and routed?

Thanks

 

[synergy_jim]

Nice work!

Could you tell me about the background on the Village Of Strasburg sign?

How it was created and routed?

Thanks

Woodgrain was created in photoshop and saved as a grayscale bitmap. It was then applied to the relief in Enroute using the bitmap function.

It was machined with 1/4" and 1/8" ball end mills.

 

[Techman]

Man, them 4x4 posts are screaming for some scroll work or something..