Advice

[EGI]

So, I decided to bring this to the forum and see what you guys had to say. Last week I had been working with a couple, that the husband has his own Construction/Remodeling company, and came to us for new graphics for their van. First thing I ask, do you have a logo? No. So I explain what they're looking for is also a logo. Because they wanted to use the graphics on the van for signs and biz cards. No problem, I love working with branding.

So shortly into the first meeting, the wife starts telling me how conservative she is, and that the graphics have to be conservative and not over the top. No problem, I can design to any standards.

So I start working on some ideas. Couple days later I bring them in to show them 4 samples on a pic of their van, and show them my Illus layout with all the other ideas to see what they thought. The whole time the wife keeps telling me shes conservative, ok I got it... We narrow it down to a few different versions of 1 concept. Great, this is going well. I gave them 5 versions of 1 concept last friday, to think about it over the weekend, and to let me know what they thought today.

So, this am when I open my email I get this.
"I know you have spent time on this, however after discussing it over the weekend we have designed a logo and would like to use it."

Attached is their logo, and the 5 samples I sent them last friday.

I'm asking the forum what you guys think I should do. I would still like to bill them for the time spent so far, plus the time it will take to make their pos vector so it can be cut out of vinyl... Or do I try and sell them one of my concepts?

What do you guys think I should do?

 

[signage]

I would ask them when did they change their name!

 

[EGI]

I would ask them when did they change their name!

Good point! I had also just gotten another email asking me to add their slogan/tag line... I'm not even sure I have that stupid font!

It's also funny, cause during one of the meetings the wife was tellling me how she designed the existing lettering with word perfect using Times Roman, and thought that didn't get enough attention...

 

[EGI]

Ha! I didn't even notice that Brian.

I hope you have a contract/agreement for the logo design? If you do, then bill them for your time that they have wasted. I would also try to communicate to them that their "logo" is absolute garbage, and that they would only be hurting their "image" by using something that ugly.

That being said.....I wouldn't use any of the logos between yours and theirs (no offense). All I see is 5 variations of the same thing, and none of them say "conservative" or professional to me.

Yeah, my intent is to bill them for everything. Just asking for help in how I should break the news to them... Also, Originally I had many more concepts, but that was the only one she liked. So I was trying to give them variations on what they liked...

 

[John Butto]

"the wife starts telling me how conservative she is"
Sounds like you were not listening to her, your designs with the buzz saw and overlapping C's and typing some font out showed them that they can do just as good as you so they did their own. Layout the van with their logo and add the artwork charge to the price of the lettering their van.

 

[petesign]

I think John is right - sometimes conservative is in the eye of the beholder. I think your idea is a lot nicer, but it's what they want - don't lose the business, just go with it.

 

[Marlene]

Yeah, my intent is to bill them for everything. Just asking for help in how I should break the news to them...

by breaking the news to them, do you mean that you intend to charge them for the service? did you at least explain that logo design is a paid service? had you talked to them and told them what you were going to charge them, they would have had the choice to hire you for the service or not.

 

[EGI]

I want to charge them for all the time spent, plus the time to fix their pos. Also the "buzz saw" was they're idea... I had started out feeling good about this job, and excited to give them something eye catching, but it has gotten out of hand, and just trying to salvage something out of this, and make sure we get fairly compensated...

 

[signage]

I hope you explained your charges for the design time and changes as they come along! Like I said they appearently have changed the name of their company along with the direction of the design, they should have ben told in the inital meeting how changes such as these would effect the price of the final job!

 

[bob]

I fail to see that the set you did is a whole hell of a lot better than the one they did. Different but different just means different. Any and all of them are somewhat less than attractive.

 

[Circleville Signs]

Bob and John are correct. Theirs is bad. So are yours.

It sounds like you don't have a real system in place for dealing with design clients. The cold hard reality is that if you didn't tell them, up front, that design = $xx/hr, then you are screwed. Even if you DID tell them that, and you didn't get a deposit (for logo design we usually as for a 3 hour deposit), then again, that's on you. If you try to bill them for design work that they didn't know they were going to be billed for, and that they didn't end up using, you stand a good chance of losing the job completely.

Personally, i would tell them it will be 2 hours to vectorize what they gave you, add an extra $40-60 to the price of the van graphics, and be done with it.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

I think you're out of luck on this one. Chalk it up. I think you might be still in the stage I finally got out of of taking designs personally. You want to do work for them that you can be proud of and you feel you won't with their logo. But it's not your construction company. Smile, tell them "no problem", do the work, make them happy and take the money. They don't want to pay you for time you wanted to spend creating a logo for them that they didn't like, and if you try to charge them, they'll take their biz elsewhere. The logo wasn't finalized; they will think, "why should they pay for that?", unless you had it in writing beforehand.

 

[Gino]

• Regardless of yours or theirs being good or bad.... did you have a signed quote to start the said logo work ??
• Did you retain a design fee or a deposit ??
• Did this signed and dated quote explain to them they had to pay you, like or no likey ??
• Do you have any type of an agreement with this company for anything ??

If your answer is 'no' to any of them.... how can you justify billing them for something they had not signed their name to ??

When someone asks you to do something... are you in another world and forget to create a contract and get deposits ?? Or are you possibly afraid that if you ask for money up front, they might turn you down ??

In order to charge like a business, you might conduct yourself in a businesslike manner. Simply doing something and getting turned down or your feelings hurt does not justify charging after the fact.

Try this:

You go into a diner. You look at the specials on the blackboard. Most of them even have the prices behind them up there. Then the waitress asks you if you want anything to drink ?? You either nod or say no thank you. You look at the menu.... everything has a price behind it. Imagine that ingenious thought.​

You order, she writes up a slip which you understand to be your future bill, you eat, burp and then you pay when you're finished before leaving a tip and then the premises.​

The difference between a simple sale and your scenario is.... you knew everything going into that restaurant and knew you'd have to pay. Your customers didn't. They have no clue what it takes to reach the end, until you explain the pricing and rules beforehand, unless they like something.

 

[iSign]

cheaper than college.. just make sure you learn... by the way, how much of your time are we talking about/ what is 'fairly compensated" in your mind?

I think if you learn not to design before you get a deposit, and you learn to advise clients that the time spent is what they are paying for... not the finished product that requires absolute happiness on their part, with freedom to cancel at any time...

The logos you did need a lot of work, so practice is worth doing for free...which I think is what will end up being the only thing you will get that is worth anything to you, along with the lesson... so place your own value on the lesson & the practice & choose to feel good about it.. then move on..

(moving on can be salvaging the vehicle work, as noted above.. but again... how much time/money are we talking about that you would want for your design work? I wouldn't try to price the vehicle work a few hundred over market value or you may lose that too...

 

[GraphixUnlimited]

try to work it out with them but ya gotta get a deposit on artwork or any job for that matter and this is why.

be professional and charge them an hours worth of artwork as i am assuming thats about all you have into this give or take ( even if its more.. its something and since ya didnt get a deposit, its better than nothing ) and then start working on obtaining the vehicle graphics, biz cards and whatever else they need.

cheers and good luck

 

[iSign]

...Then the waitress asks you if you want anything to drink ?? You either nod or say no thank you.

...she writes up a slip which you understand to be your future bill, you eat, burp and then you pay when you're finished before leaving a tip...

...you knew everything going into that restaurant and knew you'd have to pay.

well, maybe I knew I'd be paying for that first beer...

but when that hot young waitress batted her eyelashes & said "would you like another beer?"
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I thought she was just "offering" me that one...
and the next one...

...trying to get me to lose my inhibitions before who knows what fantasy she would offer me next...
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well... nevermind

 

[signage]

well, maybe I knew I'd be paying for that first beer...

but when that hot young waitress batted her eyelashes & said "would you like another beer?"
-
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I thought she was just "offering" me that one...
and the next one...

...trying to get me to lose my inhibitions before who knows what fantasy she would offer me next...
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well... nevermind

Doug wake up it's time to work:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

 

[EGI]

Just to be clear. I'm not happy with how this has gotten out of control. It started off good, and has ended up being something I don't want to put my stamp of approval on.
Not to mention, I'm not real pleased with the 5 samples I attached. After the last meeting, that was what they wanted... I was just trying to make them happy. And to get the rest of the work they had for us...

Without going into all the details of the billing process, I didn't ask for a deposit up front, cause I knew the total wouldn't exceed 1k. Which anything over 1k we ask for 50% down. Guess we need to start asking for 50% up front on anything. Not to mention, I have never submitted concepts to a client they didn't like. Guess I was just having trouble connecting with them, which is unusual for me...

 

[iSign]

you can't draw illegible ineffective excuses for a logo & tell us "that is what they wanted" any more than you can tell them that... and for future reference, it didn't "start off good" if it doesn't start off with you getting money & a signed work order..

how much money we talking about here?

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

Sounds to me like you're just all butt-hurt because they didn't want to go with your designs, or want you to continue to come with something. Let it go. They're gonna have a crappy logo and there's nothing you can do about it except make their signs and get paid. This type of thing happens occasionally.

It was your idea to try to design them a logo. They didn't come to you and ask you to do it. It didn't work out this time. Maybe you'll get the next one. Let it go.

 

[EGI]

iSign, good point, starting off with a deposit would've been a "good start".

Blue, also good point. I'm just going to make their logo and cut my losses.