Apple, what a fad....

[WildWestDesigns]

You should not have to worry about this. Name me another appliance or tool in your household that requires this much babysitting.

I have a couple of Stihl tools that requires more then their fair share due to what I'm convinced is a defect from the factory.

That doesn't even get into my 6.0.

 

[signmeup]

Neither does Apple, Apple has no manufacturing facilities. They spec and low bid source just like every other consumer electronics manufacturer. Most of Apple's stuff is assembled in China now. Look under the covers and you'll find WD, Seagate, Fujitsu or whatever brand of HD met their spec and was the winning bid in that contract year. NEC was making Apple's monitors, I don't know who is now. Their chips are Intel or Motorola, their boards are (at least this year) contract made by Asus.

Wait a minute! You mean Apple are just assemblers like everyone else? Apple has no manufacturing facilities? They just make software and use the same stuff inside their computers that all the other companies use?! If this is true then what the heck is all the hype about?

 

[Tim Aucoin]

PC vs. Mac!!

Can't believe I beat Gino to this one!! :ROFLMAO: And NO... that is not me (on the left)!!

 

[Tim Aucoin]

And just to show I'm not picking sides...

 

[signmeup]

This might be interesting...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=623&Itemid=38&limit=1&limitstart=5

It's a site where a guy builds a "Hackintosh" and compares it to his MAC pro.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Joe, you've missed my point completely! I've asked 3 times now, so I guess this makes it 4 times.

No I didn't miss your point, I choose to specifically respond to one of your many points. which was ->

I did too, by showing the iMac is $50 more than a Dell, yet you, and others, keep saying they are grossly overpriced. I don't consider $50 on a $1200 item "grossly" overpriced.

So I did a little research gathered up factual data to debate your statement. And the truth is you CAN get a PC with faster parts for the same cost as the iMac you posted. Using a little bit of reasoning one could come to the conclusion that you could also get a PC with very similar specs for less money... a significant amount. When I bought my laptop last summer, I looked at a Macbook pro, I was able to get a faster Name brand PC laptop and still save about $1000.

Why is it not okay to pay more for a Mac, even if all the hype is not true, and it's just buying to be trendy, but when you buy a pair of Oakleys, or a Coach purse, it's perfectly acceptable, in your mind?

Never said it wasn't "okay", and even though this is the 4th time you have proposed this question, it is the first time I have decided to take the time to respond to it. It's not my money, If someone wants to pay extra for a specific brand, go for it. However, your's or anyone else's choice to do so isn't going to somehow convince me that the more expensive brand is the best brand just because it is more expensive. If it is important for you to prove apples worth, I wouldn't suggest this as your chief argument.

It's ZERO difference in buying a pair of Oakleys or a Coach purse and buying a Mac, if you assume the PC side of the argument that it's all hype and no point and it's just a fad of overpriced products.

If you look at Apple as a fashion accessory you have a point, but not one that matters much to me. I buy sunglasses to protect my eyes from the sun, I do like a certain look, but I don't need a specific brand. I buy a computer to do work, surf the net, watch video, listen to music, etc.. etc... It is not a fashion accessory to me. People noticing what brand of computer I own doesn't send shivers up my spine.

I guess it would be wrong to buy a PC from Signburst PC's too, because clearly, you can shop around and buy more, for less.

In my opinion the value that Casey's Signburst products brings to the table is that his configurations are specifically built and tested for specific jobs in this industry, and in my opinion, specwise, his PC's are still a better bang for your buck then a similar priced Mac.

I just don't understand the logic on how, if it's in your personal life, you can justify buying anything that's "trendy" or "hip" but when a stranger does it with their computer, they are stupid and paying too much.

First of all I didn't call anyone stupid, But I don't understand why people would spend so much more on a Mac, because I don't buy equipment like computers to be "trendy" If that is important to you, fine. But just like you wouldn't appreciate being called "stupid" for buying a mac, PC users and even people that don't really give a crap get annoyed hearing Mac Fanboys trying to convince the world that everything apple produces is somehow magical.

 

[Todd-sta]

THEY NEED A MAC

The magical Fairy dust has blinded you.... lol.

These gloom and doom pc stories are quite humorous.

Mac's tagline should be: "Plug and Pay."

I'll sell you my Macbook Pro 17 for half off..... $3,500.

 

[Joe Diaz]

And just to show I'm not picking sides...

That is funny, but that is generally how I feel about all all-in-one computers.

 

[CES020]

That's comical Joe

The entire point of this thread was that if it was the "fad" and "overpriced nonsense" that some of you believe it is, it wouldn't be one of the largest, most well run businesses in the world. If they ripped people off on a daily basis, they wouldn't win top honors for customer satisfaction survey after survey. If they were nothing more than a fashion accessory, then they wouldn't sell millions and 100's of millions of products each year.

I don't care what anyone uses. I think you should use which ever one makes you happy, but I also don't think that the arguments against apple are valid. If they were valid arguments, they wouldn't be so successful.

I don't care what sunglasses you wear. I wouldn't dig my heels in to insist I could have got sunglasses for $10, so what's the point of paying $160 for a pair? You have $160 to spend, you like them, great! Go for it. If I want to buy a pair for $10, fine with that too. I don't care which one you use, but some of the PC guys want to insist on telling people which one is better, which one they SHOULD use.

I am in the market for a new computer. I've been using computers since 1977. I used apples in those days (not mine), then PC's, the Sun WorkStations running Unix, AS400 mainframes and just about everything in between. I fell in love with Unix many years ago. They had email and messaging before anyone knew what email and messaging was. Will I buy another PC or a Mac? I have no idea. I'm shopping around, looking at the pros and cons right now.

Some people like Starbucks. Some people will pay $4 for coffee. Why? They can get it somewhere else for $1. They buy it because they like it and it makes them happy. That's good enough for me. If a Mac makes you happy and you like it, great. If a PC makes you happy and you like it, great. But I don't think anyone has exclusive rights to tell me what I can or cannot like and why I should or should not like something. We make choices every day in our lives. Most of them could be done cheaper, less expensive, yet we don't. Yet no one rants and raves about my $4 coffee. Mention a Mac and people get in line to rant against it. That's the part I guess I'll never understand. The underlying hatred against something that's a personal choice, a personal choice just like sunglasses, coffee, cars, plotters, printers, and so many other things we decide every day.

 

[CES020]

Mac's tagline should be: "Plug and Pay."

As opposed to the famous one from Windows, "Plug and Pray"????

 

[Todd-sta]

As opposed to the famous one from Windows, "Plug and Pray"????

LOL... exactly. I plug my Windows 7 Pro 64 bit machine in and watch it kick butt, then I say a prayer and ask the Good Lord to not let me waste my money again on a hyperinflated Mac.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Okay, one more just to keep this happy thread going! :Big Laugh

 

[David Wright]

I found this quoting the writer Umberto Eco:
"Umberto Eco once wrote a memorable essay
arguing that the Apple Mac was a Catholic device, while the IBM PC was a Protestant one. His reasoning was that, like the Roman church, Apple offered a guaranteed route to salvation – the Apple Way – provided one stuck to it. PC users, on the other hand, had to take personal responsibility for working out their own routes to heaven.

Eco's metaphor applies with a vengeance to the new generations of Apple iDevices, which are rigidly controlled appliances. You may think you own your lovely, shiny new iPhone or iPad, but in reality an invisible virtual string links it back to Apple HQ at One Infinite Loop, Cupertino.

You can't install anything on it that hasn't had the prior approval of Mr Jobs and his subordinates. And if you are foolish enough to break the rules and seek your own route to salvation, then you may find when you next try to sync it with iTunes that it has turned into an expensive, beautifully designed paperweight. If that isn't power, then I don't know what is."

Hey Todd, I like your signature line.

 

["Deposit Please"]

I like macs, but i would give the advantage to pc's in the sign industry. Signlab, Corel and most, not all, but most, rips are for pc's. There is a mac version of Flexisign, but has alot of issues. Any issues i had with 3rd party software running on my mac, by way of parallels, was not supported by tech.

 

[Joe Diaz]

That's comical Joe

The entire point of this thread was that if it was the "fad" and "overpriced nonsense" that some of you believe it is, it wouldn't be one of the largest, most well run businesses in the world.

Who told you it's a fad? And why do you care so much? You throwing out straw man fallacies left and right man. I don't see very many people arguing whether or not apple is successful or not. They may argue why they are successful. I happen to think they are marketing geniuses and their ability to generate fanaticism is almost God like. I believe that has more to do with their successes then the quality of their product. Not to say the quality of their product isn't good. But is it THAT good? That is the question on most non converts' minds. Is it worth an extra $100-$200 or ever $1000?

I also know that some people like to buy higher cost brands as status thing, and apple wisely capitalizes on that. That may also be a factor

Here is the thing you need to keep in mind: I can prove that you can get the same or better hardware in a PC for less money. Maybe not all PCs, but because their are so many to chose from, that is an easy argument to win. You can't win that argument.

SO you would be able to argue Operating system or customer support, but those arguments are hard to back up because it's a matter of perspective. And when it comes to hardware you are comparing one company, to many. You could argue things like "I never get viruses", my argument would be, "I don't either". Or you could say "I like Macs because the Operating system is better". That is a matter of perspective. I personally like windows 7 better and I would also argue if OSX is better why would Mac users also want or need to install Windows on their Mac too. You could argue Tech support or the service is better, I could point out that the person who built my computer and also doubles as my tech support is a few blocks down the street, is very good at what he does, and can fix my computer in house leaving me with little downtime IF problems were to arise.

My point is this: you and the many other happy Mac users have been convinced that Mac is better for them and worth the cost. And that is just great. Maybe for you it is. However There are many people, I would argue many more people, who have not yet been convinced that the juice is worth the squeeze.

So Apple may be an extremely successful company but there are many PC companies that are also successful, from the small shop down the street that has a local market, to the company that makes PCs specifically for the sign industry, to the bigger outfit like Dell or HP. So I will propose the same question to you, If they didn't make great products, how come THEY are successful?

 

[Todd-sta]

I found this quoting the writer Umberto Eco:
"Umberto Eco once wrote a memorable essay
arguing that the Apple Mac was a Catholic device, while the IBM PC was a Protestant one. His reasoning was that, like the Roman church, Apple offered a guaranteed route to salvation – the Apple Way – provided one stuck to it. PC users, on the other hand, had to take personal responsibility for working out their own routes to heaven.

Eco's metaphor applies with a vengeance to the new generations of Apple iDevices, which are rigidly controlled appliances. You may think you own your lovely, shiny new iPhone or iPad, but in reality an invisible virtual string links it back to Apple HQ at One Infinite Loop, Cupertino.

You can't install anything on it that hasn't had the prior approval of Mr Jobs and his subordinates. And if you are foolish enough to break the rules and seek your own route to salvation, then you may find when you next try to sync it with iTunes that it has turned into an expensive, beautifully designed paperweight. If that isn't power, then I don't know what is."

Hey Todd, I like your signature line.

LOL... that's pure genius David! I likey.

 

[Todd-sta]

Ok... When I got my Macbook Pro 17..... it wouldn't hook up wirelessly to my Epson R1800 printer....wasn't a driver yet. It was bent, and wouldn't set straight on my desk....so I had to bend it - literally - over my knee till it would. The #2 key wouldn't register unless you really poked it hard. And, I've had it crash out a few Apple apps multiple times. Anyone that says Mac's don't ever 'crash' .... well, I don't believe it.

Nice screen though, and there are a few apps included that are neat - iPhoto being one of them. Very eccentric computing though, in my opinion.

And what's with the green 'maximize' radio button that almost NEVER maximizes a program.... you have to physically and constantly drag the corners of your application to fill the screen - pain in the butt!

Windows 7 rocks and is rock-solid. Hey, I gave it a shot, and fell for the slick packaging and marketing hype.... never again - not worth the $ for me. To each his own though.

Been fun yanking some chains... and playing along.

 

[CES020]

Eco's metaphor applies with a vengeance to the new generations of Apple iDevices, which are rigidly controlled appliances. You may think you own your lovely, shiny new iPhone or iPad, but in reality an invisible virtual string links it back to Apple HQ at One Infinite Loop, Cupertino.

That's really cool David, so let me know how this can happen on a non-apple device :

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f04a88b8-48ea-11e0-af8c-00144feab49a.html#axzz1G0v0MX7b

If I can paraphrase, google came into people's phones, without their knowing or consent (other than agreeing to it when you bought the phone) and removed software. So how's that make Google any different than apple?

Joe, I really think you haven't read my posts because you say about 70% of the same thing I do and then act like it's the opposite position of mine. Here's a couple of points I should highlight :

1) I never said you couldn't buy a PC cheaper than a Mac.
2) I don't own a Mac, so your statement "you and the many other happy Mac users have been convinced that Mac is better for them and worth the cost." doesn't apply to me. I repeatedly stated I'm in the market for a computer and have not made a decision yet. So I'm unsure how that was linked to me saying they were worth the extra money.
3) I never said HP or Dell weren't successful companies. In fact, I said I'm typing on a Dell. I have 3 Dells here and 1 HP.
4) You said that it's perspective that causes people to pick one. Funny, I said the same thing, and that's all I ever said, was that one should have the ability to make either choice and not be called to the carpet for it.
5) The apple folks seem to be fine with PC people using PCs, but PC folks seem to have MAJOR problems with people using Macs.

In case you didn't get what I said, I said you should be free to decide which one fits you best, whether it's $5 more, $500 more, or $5,000 more. It's not my place to tell anyone where to spend their money.

And still, no one's explained how it's okay to spend top dollar on everything else in life, but it's not okay on a computer

 

[GAC05]

I wonder if Charlie Sheen is a Mac or PC guy.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[Joe Diaz]

That's really cool David, so let me know how this can happen on a non-apple device :

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f04a88b8-48ea-11e0-af8c-00144feab49a.html#axzz1G0v0MX7b

If I can paraphrase, google came into people's phones, without their knowing or consent (other than agreeing to it when you bought the phone) and removed software. So how's that make Google any different than apple?

Joe, I really think you haven't read my posts because you say about 70% of the same thing I do and then act like it's the opposite position of mine. Here's a couple of points I should highlight : Nope I read it all, why do you assume every thing I write was meant to be the opposite position to yours?

1) I never said you couldn't buy a PC cheaper than a Mac. No but you posted spec comparisons to make the point that Macs aren't much more expensive then PC's and several of us posted more accurate comparisons showing that you can get quite a bit more PC for your buck.
2) I don't own a Mac, so your statement "you and the many other happy Mac users have been convinced that Mac is better for them and worth the cost." doesn't apply to me. I repeatedly stated I'm in the market for a computer and have not made a decision yet. So I'm unsure how that was linked to me saying they were worth the extra money. Based on your position in this debate, it would appear it does apply to you. You aren't a "Mac user" but I did say You AND the many Mac users". Plus your statements seem to clearly place you into the catigory of those who think Macs are worth the extra cost. If this isn't true what is the point of starting the thread and pretty much every one of your posts in this thread?
3) I never said HP or Dell weren't successful companies. In fact, I said I'm typing on a Dell. I have 3 Dells here and 1 HP. And I never said you did, however you made the point that if Macs weren't worth the cost then how come Apple is sucessful. and my position is they are worth the cost to some people... but not nearly everyone not even the majority, hence the sucess of the many companies that build windows based PCs.
4) You said that it's perspective that causes people to pick one. Funny, I said the same thing, and that's all I ever said, was that one should have the ability to make either choice and not be called to the carpet for it. Then that wasn't an argument against your point of view and we agree on something.
5) The apple folks seem to be fine with PC people using PCs, but PC folks seem to have MAJOR problems with people using Macs. Are you kidding me? If anything they dish it out just as much. Maybe even more.


And still, no one's explained how it's okay to spend top dollar on everything else in life, but it's not okay on a computer Who said it isn't Okay? Plenty of people said they wouldn't spend extra money on a Mac, but then plenty of people don't spend "top dollar on everything else in life". But I don't recall anyone saying it is against the law or not "okay" to spend top dollar on a Mac. Again that is a straw man argument.

Okay, answer a few of my questions:

1.Who said apple was a fad, and why do you take them seriously are even care?
1-b do you think most PC users believe this or do you believe that the group of people that believe this are a much smaller minority?
B.Who said it wasn't "Okay" for people to spend their money buying one brand over the other?
i why do keep asking "Why is it not okay to pay more for a Mac" (4 times) if no one said it isn't okay?
III. Why do you so passionately defend apple against all the "haters" your words not mine, if you don't own a Mac?