Attaching aluminum composite panel to post

[medavez]

I'm fabricating and installing a simple outdoor wayfinding sign.
The face is a 16"x20" single-sided UV print on 6MM aluminum composite.
It will be attached to a single 2" square aluminum tube that has been powder coated.
No fasteners are to be put through the face of the sign.
My plan is to attach two 12" lengths of aluminum angle to the back of the sign to "straddle" the post at the shop. The posts will be set on-site. Then use self-tapping screws through the angle to attach the sign panel to the post on-site.
Question:
What would be the best adhesive to attach the angle to the back of the aluminum composite?

Any suggestions on this and my overall approach is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Moze]

That's a good approach. If it were me, I would use 2" aluminum angle for your two 12" lengths. Then I would apply VHB tape to the portion of the post that will contact the ACM as well as to the two legs of the aluminum angle that will contact the ACM. A few beads of silicone for good measure and you'll be good to go.

 

[Billct2]

I'd also consider VHB & Lord Adhesives

 

[Gino]

Why aren't you using physical fasteners through the face ?? That's by far the most logical method and the safest. Anything less is jeapordising the integrity of the installation.

 

[Moze]

Why aren't you using physical fasteners through the face ?? That's by far the most logical method and the safest. Anything less is jeapordising the integrity of the installation.

Not sure how you figure that.

Ever tried to remove a panel stuck to aluminum with VHB tape and silicone?

 

[Rick]

I've designed thousands of signs using angles, VHB/Lords
and then mechanically attaching to posts with no issues.

Just make sure your paint job is good. The paint will give
way before the VHB will.

Had someone recently try to pull a panel off, without using
angles, they bent it up, but it held.

I don't recommend VHB straight to the post, but many
shops around here do it with great success.

 

[Gino]

Not sure how you figure that.

Ever tried to remove a panel stuck to aluminum with VHB tape and silicone?

I've designed thousands of signs using angles, VHB/Lords
and then mechanically attaching to posts with no issues.

Just make sure your paint job is good. The paint will give
way before the VHB will.

Had someone recently try to pull a panel off, without using
angles, they bent it up, but it held.

I don't recommend VHB straight to the post, but many
shops around here do it with great success.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it's not the best way. I've seen more fail, than not. Not through personal experience of doing it that way, but seeing many others slowly oozing down. They look terrible, when not perfectly straight. You have 2 12" x 3/4" areas for applying your tape or 18 square inches of a straight up & down area in which to do this. Odds are on very hot days, it's gonna let go over extended heat waves. Heck, I've seen streets melt due to excessive heat.
As for making an average of 12 a week for the last 30 years, I can't say I've designed or made that many little signs and have zero failures. Really, not one failure out of 1,000s ??
I still think using a physical fastener through the face, is by far the best method. You just hafta provide your customer with the proper reasoning. Not give in to their wishes.

 

[Moze]

Why aren't you using physical fasteners through the face ?? That's by far the most logical method and the safest. Anything less is jeapordising the integrity of the installation.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it's not the best way. I've seen more fail, than not. Not through personal experience of doing it that way, but seeing many others slowly oozing down. They look terrible, when not perfectly straight. You have 2 12" x 3/4" areas for applying your tape or 18 square inches of a straight up & down area in which to do this. Odds are on very hot days, it's gonna let go over extended heat waves. Heck, I've seen streets melt due to excessive heat.
As for making an average of 12 a week for the last 30 years, I can't say I've designed or made that many little signs and have zero failures. Really, not one failure out of 1,000s ??
I still think using a physical fastener through the face, is by far the best method. You just hafta provide your customer with the proper reasoning. Not give in to their wishes.

I was referring to the part where you said fasteners through the face was by far the most logical and safest method and that anything less jeopardizes the integrity. Not being argumentative, but that's simply not true. Signs are made without visible fasteners all of the time here and they hold up fine in the Texas heat. 3M tests their VHB tapes in 200° temperatures and they do exceedingly well.

It's not about "providing your customer with the proper reasoning", it's about knowing what materials are available, being familiar with their capabilities and using them to give the customer what they want if it can be done safely. Maybe concealed fasteners aren't a hot item where you're at, but they're a constant factor here. Upscale clients, architects, etc. constantly spec concealed fasteners and sign companies build post and panel signs, monument signs, etc. with VHB tape or Lord adhesives.

One square inch of VHB tape has a dynamic shear of 70 pounds per square inch. 18 square inches of it would have a combined dynamic shear of 1260 pounds. They build RV's, airplanes and building with VHB tape. His tiny little sign would be just fine.

 

[Jester1167]

The Arabian Tower stands higher than the Eiffel Tower, and has much of its external structure held together with 3M™ VHB™ Adhesive Tape
The new Burj Al Arab (The Arabian Tower), at Jumeira Beach in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, is the pioneering property using 3M products. Designed by architect Tom Wills-Wright in the shape of a billowing sail, the hotel has caught the imagination of the world. At 56 stories high, it is the tallest hotel in the world.

3M™ VHB™ adhesive tape was selected as an alternative to structural silicones, rivets and other fixings to attach the all-important external panels to an aluminum frame which was mechanically attached to the Tower.

The very high bond tape had been successfully used on another hotel in Dubai (Jumeira Beach Hotel), on internal installations at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, and on the massive twin towers of the world's tallest building, the Kuala Lumpur City Center in Malaysia. The Tower Hotel is now the most extensive application of VHB™ adhesive tape ever attempted.

 

[skyhigh]

The Arabian Tower stands higher than the Eiffel Tower, and has much of its external structure held together with 3M™ VHB™ Adhesive Tape

And its my understanding the heat shield tiles are "glued" to the space shuttle with an adhesive made by Lord.



mechanical fastners???...... P~~~~~

 

[Gino]

:ROFLMAO: you guys are the best. I merely mention physical fasteners are better, and the lot of you go off ruining someone else's thread once again. I was never arguing, but y'all just jump on spiraling yet another thread downwards. Besides sky...... I never mentioned mechanical fasteners P~~~~

And now you're gonna tell me the same stuff (to the best of your knowledge) they use on these towers and this space craft is the same stuff all you cheapscapes buy ink for less, fix your own equipment, font finding what's the cheapest vinyl I can buy......... these people asking for belp are gonna use space age glue or tape ??

They hear what they wanna hear, not what you think you know. Go ahead, just ruin another thread for an inocent member. You're just..........

 

[Rick]

Huh?

 

[Rick]

No... really... HUH????

 

[Moze]

Let's start over.

Why aren't you using physical fasteners through the face ?? Because the customer said no fasteners are to be put through the face. That's by far the most logical method and the safest. No, it's not. VHB or Lord's will hold as well or better than bolts and also gives the customer what they're asking for. Anything less is jeapordising the integrity of the installation. Completely untrue.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it's not the best way. I've seen more fail, than not. Not through personal experience of doing it that way, but seeing many others slowly oozing down. They look terrible, when not perfectly straight. Then they didn't prep it correctly, or use the correct tape, or all of the above. You have 2 12" x 3/4" areas for applying your tape or 18 square inches of a straight up & down area in which to do this. Using two 12" lengths of 1" aluminum angle as well as using the 2" x 12" area of square tube gives you a combined area of 48 square inches. Odds are on very hot days, it's gonna let go over extended heat waves. No, it won't. Heck, I've seen streets melt due to excessive heat.
As for making an average of 12 a week for the last 30 years, I can't say I've designed or made that many little signs and have zero failures. Really, not one failure out of 1,000s ?? Probably because he's doing it correctly.
I still think using a physical fastener through the face, is by far the best method. It's not. You just hafta provide your customer with the proper reasoning. The proper reasoning comes from being familiar with the products on the market and what they're capable of. Not give in to their wishes. Sounds like a good way to lose a customer.

:ROFLMAO: you guys are the best. I merely mention physical fasteners are better (they're not), and the lot of you go off ruining someone else's thread once again. By giving him accurate information? Physical fasteners are not better. Give me an ACM panel attached to a 2" square aluminum tube with two bolts and give me an ACM panel attached with VHB tape as described and I promise I can rip the panel off that's bolted on than the one that's taped and siliconed on. I was never arguing, but y'all just jump on spiraling yet another thread downwards. Besides sky...... I never mentioned mechanical fasteners P~~~~

And now you're gonna tell me the same stuff (to the best of your knowledge) they use on these towers and this space craft is the same stuff all you cheapscapes buy ink for less, fix your own equipment, font finding what's the cheapest vinyl I can buy......... these people asking for belp are gonna use space age glue or tape ??

They hear what they wanna hear, not what you think you know. Go ahead, just ruin another thread for an inocent member. You're just..........

 

[skyhigh]

The key here is to know the "tools of your trade".




ps. Its kinda cool to know I can kindle that much emotion with only a handful of words, to receive an "honorable mention".
NOW THATS awesome.

Besides sky...... I never mentioned mechanical fasteners P~~~~

If indeed that were true, and you never mentioned "mechanical" fastners, then why on earth would you reply to me? Why in the hell would you think I was talking to you????

But that aside, and truth be told.....YEAH YA DID....but NO I wasn't talking to you.

I still think using a physical fastener through the face, is by far the best method.

wow.

 

[skyhigh]

The OP asked for an adhesive recommendation

1) No fasteners are to be put through the face of the sign.

2) What would be the best adhesive to attach the angle to the back of the aluminum composite?

You reply back by telling him he's doing it wrong, along with incorrect information that "physical fasteners" are better. You go on to insinuate his sign will "OOZE" down if not done your way.

I merely mention physical fasteners are better, and the lot of you go off ruining someone else's thread once again. I was never arguing, but y'all just jump on spiraling yet another thread downwards

The spiraling downward motion began when your hands neared the keyboard.
Ya know.... there were like 5 posts before mine, where the use of "fasteners" were addressed, yet you decide to mention me? LOL


Here is a good video on the use of VHB.

[video=youtube;G9GSZftScYk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9GSZftScYk[/video]

Could you imaging the facade of the Arabian Tower sagging and oozing? Have you ever saw panels flying off an enclosed trailer (smooth side) going down the interstate? That being said, do you know how stoopid it sounds to insinuate VHB can't handle a 20" x 16" sign panel???? :ROFLMAO:


Final thought for today....... for the unsuspecting newbie who reads your post.
Being the top poster doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.....it only means he talks a lot!!!!!!


ps. where it says PHD under your name, I'm thinking a better distinction may be.....
DBBB ("Dazzles with Brilliance" - "Baffles with Bullchit") or......
FDM ("Facts Don't Matter")

 

[Billct2]

We did a sign with 9"x72" tenant panels made from two pieces of alumalite bonded with VHB and Lord Adhesive.
When a car hit it, it broke the 6"x6" PT posts and ripped the aluminum angle that was screwed to the post right out. Also ripped the bolts holding the panels
right through the alumalite and bent them like pretzels. The panels stayed bonded together through all that.

 

[skyhigh]

I can only imagine that the bottom tenant panel must have sagged and OOZED to the point of obstructing the view of traffic, inevitably leading up to the crash???

sorry I couldn't resist. jk Bill

 

[d fleming]

Angle and Lords adhesive. Have a fairly large sign just in sight of the shop we used Lords and this method on as a test for future reference. That sucker aint goin' nowhere.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Besides sky...... I never mentioned mechanical fasteners P~~~~

Did a post get deleted??

because as the thread reads now, you were the first one to mention fasteners... Post #4 you stated you should use physical (mechanical) fasteners and state that anything else was unsafe and jeopardized the installation.