Backlit Signs, How do you take the face out?

[scarface]

Hey guys, in another post i mentioned the job coming up tomorrow for a customer who wants the old sign taken down and new one up.

Here is the sign box i'm talking about, I'm thinking now i may try to install the face myself with a friend or two but how does a back lit face come out?

Also, the total size is 18ftx2.5ft, any idea why the other company made a split between the T and A?

Also does anyone know what permits i would need for my company to do this, which is just me and a friend?

I really wanna nail this job, new business would need window graphics, banners, cards, menus etc

Thanks!

 

[Billct2]

how does a back lit face come out?

Also, the total size is 18ftx2.5ft, any idea why the other company made a split between the T and A?

The face comes out whatever way it went in....just had to say it, but it's true. That looks like a drop in box. The face is held in by an L shaped aluminum trim (the retainer) which is scewed (usually with self tap hex heads) to the box.
The seam is there because (maybe)they used a 5'x12' piece of lexan to make the face. In any case you'll have a seam somewhere unless you use a flex face.When doing a seamed face we rout an overlap at the seam so you don't see the light line. And try to get the seam to fall between the letters if possible.

 

[scarface]

So just some hex screws and the entire front frame would come off and let the sign be taken out?

 

[Techman]

just one end ,, usually

 

[Billct2]

Not the whole thing. The retainer is usually made in several sections around the perimeter.

 

[Billct2]

One end if it's a slider box.

 

[Billct2]

Then again if it's a Sign Comp type with "hinge face" you will have to take the whole face & frame down.

 

[scarface]

Here is another view i have of the sign box

Also, what do you mean you route something for the seam, You put the 2 pieces together, then what?

I'm a little confused.

Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[Billct2]

Slide in face, take one end off and face slide out.
We rout an overlap where the two pieces butt together so there isn't a seam where the light will shine thru.

 

[CentralSigns]

What you need to do is remove the face by sliding it out sideways, or if the sign face is hinged remove the frame and hinge together. Don't re-use the old face. If it's been there some time the face will have a ghost image of it's graphic. If you have to re-use it turn it upside down, this makes the ghost text unreadable or harder to see. Best to get new material. The best material is lexan, it's almost bomb proof. Don't seam in a material lexan comes in whatever length you will need. The wholesaler will sell it off a roll in different widths. Always buy a couple feet more than you need, in case the cuts aren't square. Cut the material with a skill saw with a plywood or non-ferrous metal blade. The one you took out may have had tabs on the edge of it. Purchase glue for the lexan material and build new tabs from your scrap material. Build them exactly like the one you removed. Put it up in reverse of the way you removed it. Hope this helps some.

 

[andy]

+1 on sliding the panels out sideways.

DO NOT take out all the screws along the top beading... the bead will come off and the panels will tip forward... right onto the pavement.

At the depth you are quoting the panels should have strips of acrylic bonded along the top edge... either on the front or back of the panel. These are your hanging rails which take up expansion and contraction... for a sign like this the panels are usually cut slightly smaller than the metal box and the panel is "hung". This stops the panel warping when it expands on a hot day.

For replacement panels my choice would be 5mm thick Opal 050 acrylic. This will give you nice flat panels which are easy to letter and easy to slide back in. At the size you need this would require two panels with a single join.

Whatever material you decide to use get them cut to the same size as the old panels you're taking out... this makes sure everything will fit back together.

 

[G-Artist]

While you were there you should have pulled off one of the sign retainers
and mic'd the thickness of the sign stock. That way you could give the client
2 quotes. One for re-lettering and using the old face and one for a replacement
face. Since it is a start-up, I'll bet they would love to use the old faces due to
costs. Just inform them of the possibility of ghosting which may or may not
be an issue depending on what the design is you install. If you do a reverse
print, that will minimize the problem greatly.

There may or may not be ghosting. An extremely good cleaning will minimize
that to some extent. There are ghost removal products on the market but
I have no experience with them. I think they are hooey but that's just a guess
on my part.

While it is easier to work on re-lettering on the ground, I've done scads of those
in-place due to time of day and traffic. I will pull the faces on a reverse print.
The legend that is there now is simple to do without opening the cabinet.

As to permits...that all depends on local codes. I've NEVER pulled a permit for
a re-letter job and I never will. We have 24 codes to deal with in my county.
23 cities plus the county code for the unincorporated area. I will pull them for
a new install but never for a face/legend replacement.

If anyone with a clipboard comes along, just pretend you are an employee of the
pizza joint or the brother-in-law of the owner. LOL!!! That's why my truck has
mag signs. They are left in the shop when we do sign work in a few local cities.
BTW, construction inspectors never work after hours or on weekends if you catch
my drift.

I belong to the MOSH club in the permit area. You are not making structural changes
nor touching electrics so screw them(!!!) and their BLANKING fees and paperwork.

One other thing to remember is that a property owner can do anything to their
premises that a licensed contractor can do. I am not talking about a tenant, but
rather an owner. They can pull their own permits, they can do their own wiring
and plumbing, carpentry, glazing, flooring, sign installs, etc. Their employees are
also permitted to do the work as well. There have been times when I was on a
company's payroll for a day...understand? There have been times where I was
'instructing' an owner how to do an install via a hand's on method <g>.

 

[JR's]

Slide in face, take one end off and face slide out.
We rout an overlap where the two pieces butt together so there isn't a seam where the light will shine thru.

that is a good idea Bill.

JR

 

[MikePro]

Permits? Get a drawing approved by the city and a proper permit!

Once did a sign for a friend's friend that was opening up a restaurant. He was content spending a couple grand on channel letters, but upon survey I noticed he already had an existing illuminated awning from the previous tenant... to I "helped him out" by doing the job for next to nothing by just putting vinyl graphics on it. Even though I had a verbal approval from someone the city that I did not need a permit for such a thing, I found out later that my contact at the city was no longer working there and the new blood wanted a pound of my flesh for not getting a proper permit. They still consider it a brand new sign... even if you're just throwing a sticker on it.

Ended up getting sued by my friends' friend because he got hit with fees and ordered to take down the sign. While we ended up comming to an agreement where I gave him back his payment, plus the $300 fine, and washed my hands of the headache... I've learned that you can NEVER simply take a verbal confirmation. ALWAYS get a proper permit/approval on paper from the city.

edited: granted this was in Madison, near the capitol... so they have committees that are extremely picky about the image of the strip that leads directly to the capital building. I would have been approved if I had gone to them first, but since I did it without their signing off on it first... I'm sure they took it as a power trip, and made an example of the situation. Know your county's codes, and the proper steps to get approvals. That's why we get paid the big bucks.