CNC Machinist New to Sign Making

[zeppelin0890]

Hello Sign Gurus

I am the new router guy at my job and coming from drill/tap/milling, the real artsy stuff is not my forte.

So far I have routed aluminum, acrylic, pvc, and and melamine basically a lot of flat cut letters and shapes.

Next up is 3" sign foam and I don't even know where to start.

Please recommend me some bits and speeds and feeds.

 

[Adam Vreeke]

Personally I use an oscillating knife, and haven't cut something that thick before. I do know we have a bit the says it cuts foam, but I have never used it.

Foam Cutting Router Bits - CNC Router Bits - Industrial CNC Tooling from Amana Tool - Products

Industrial Quality Router Bits, CNC Router Bits, Saw Blades, Shaper Cutters, Boring Bits & Planer and Jointer Knives by Amana Tool

www.amanatool.com

 

[Raum Divarco]

sign foam is expensive for testing.
I would ask for some samples first.

Knife cutting sign foam will depending on the type/density of the one you have.
blade thickness and detail level of file will determine if it works or just collect broken blades.
router cutting is like butter for decent grade sign foam.
are you just cutting 2 flat stuff or have some hatch/island or 3D effects?

 

[electricfly]

What brand cutter/ software are you using

Don’t know if this helps

誕生日プレゼント ◆すぐ届く◆PIERRE HARDY◆アルファパッド ハンドバッグ 大◆ - precisionboard.com

【国産】 ◆すぐ届く◆PIERRE 大◆ ハンドバッグ HARDY◆アルファパッド 誕生日プレゼント

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[Evan Gillette]

Signs by van has put out some good videos in collaboration with duna. There are tons of bits available, hop on toolstoday and start spending money lol.

 

[zeppelin0890]

Ok so to answer all the questions already asked.......
I am using a multicam 3000 router/ enroute 6

Cutting letters into a 3" thick slab of "sign foam" as called by my supervisor.....I will try to find out its specs....

I have a 4" 2 fluted flat bottom bit that has been nicknamed the "ron jeremy" because its the biggest bit the router will take lol and I was told by the last guy that when he tried to use it the bit came out of the collet.......hope this helps you all help me I will answer any questions asap

 

[Adam Vreeke]

Assuming you mean HDU, you'll be looking at some long bits obviously. Be wary of the max RPM from the manufacturers. Sign CNC's spindles aren't as balanced as traditional milling machines (and more often abused in random ways), I've watched a 4" CEL bit shatter due to exceptionally bad run out on the spindle. You'll also find some very bad deflection on HDU if you're cutting too deep a pass, and when the machine stops in a corner, the tip of the bit will reverb back to balanced state, shredding corners.But if you're running something new, you'll probably be fine.
What sort of CNC?

I never knew about this balance issue with CNC machines, is there a work around for this besides for elongating your cut line? Or would that depend on the machine / program?

 

[Signs101Admin]

Hello Sign Gurus

I am the new router guy at my job and coming from drill/tap/milling, the real artsy stuff is not my forte.

So far I have routed aluminum, acrylic, pvc, and and melamine basically a lot of flat cut letters and shapes.

Next up is 3" sign foam and I don't even know where to start.

Please recommend me some bits and speeds and feeds.

I have used min 1/2" shaft router bits 10k spindle speed and step it 1/2" of so per pass.

 

[johnnysigns]

signfoam

This proven, high-density urethane (HDU) foam board delivers exceptional versatility and outstanding value, whether carved, routed, sandblasted or machined.

www.signfoam.com

 

[GB2]

Cutting 3" thick HDU is a unique special challenge, the most typical thing is to cut standard 2" thick HDU and despite being one of the most common things in the sign industry it is very difficult to get good information regarding bits, feeds and speeds. If you notice on this nice chart provided by Electricfly above, there are no bits on the list with a cutting length of 2" or more:

誕生日プレゼント ◆すぐ届く◆PIERRE HARDY◆アルファパッド ハンドバッグ 大◆ - precisionboard.com

【国産】 ◆すぐ届く◆PIERRE 大◆ ハンドバッグ HARDY◆アルファパッド 誕生日プレゼント

precisionboard.com

For years I cut 2" HDU on a Gerber Dimension 200 using 1/4" Gerber bits with no problem but when I got my Multicam 3000 I wanted to really up the game and come up with the best, fastest, cleanest finishing bits possible and unbelievably it's been a struggle. Being used to using 1/4" bits, wanting the least waste with the smallest kerfs and wanting the tightest radius corners, I was hoping to continue using 1/4" bits but Onsrud does not make one and I can't find another one anywhere except Gerber still makes one:

https://www.gerbertechnology.com/pdf/Routing-Engraving-Bit-Catalog.pdf

I must say however, that I haven't quite gotten the same result with my Multicam as I did with my Gerber router, there seems to be more vibration and the finish has not been as smooth. Now, if you are OK with using large expensive bits, you can find some 1/2" bits from various companies that have a cutting length of 2" or more. Recently I have been trying XEdge bits but even though they seem to be the perfect solution, I'm still trying to work out the perfect feeds and speeds and decide if these bits are the right choice. I have also used their ball nose bits with very good results but the straight end mill bits have given me some issues.

Home - X-Edge

www.xedgetools.com

 

[signbrad]

zeppelin:

This is not really germane to your question but beware of sign makers that don't know what a mil is. Many of us sign goobers use the term as if it were slang for millimeters. As a machinist, you know that a mil is one-thousandth of an inch and is not metric.
I have seen some anxious confusion when a sign guy was stymied when he saw 80 mil thickness on a blueprint, thinking it was 80mm.
Or when someone was confused by a 6mm ACM panel that had 11 mil aluminum skins (He said, "How can the skins be thicker than the core?").

80 mils is 80 thousandths and is written .080", of course. Make sure no one tries to bring you 80mm aluminum for routing.

The three tool makers and one pattern maker in my family usually said "80 thou" instead of "80 mil" to avoid confusion among the lay people.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[James Burke]

zeppelin:

This is not really germane to your question but beware of sign makers that don't know what a mil is. Many of us sign goobers use the term as if it were slang for millimeters. As a machinist, you know that a mil is one-thousandth of an inch and is not metric.
I have seen some anxious confusion when a sign guy was stymied when he saw 80 mil thickness on a blueprint, thinking it was 80mm.
Or when someone was confused by a 6mm ACM panel that had 11 mil aluminum skins (He said, "How can the skins be thicker than the core?").

80 mils is 80 thousandths and is written .080", of course. Make sure no one tries to bring you 80mm aluminum for routing.

The three tool makers and one pattern maker in my family usually said "80 thou" instead of "80 mil" to avoid confusion among the lay people.

Brad in Kansas City

Former tool and die guy, and I concur. In my nearly 40 years, we never used the term "mil". It was always "thousandths" or "tenths".

Gage makers, however, are an entirely different lot due to the nature of their work. They typically use "microns" or "millionths".


JB

 

[zeppelin0890]

So here is my first run.....I got the 1/8" and the 1/16 bits making nice smooth cuts but my 3/8" ×4" onsrud 52-574 is very noisy and chattering....I was did 1 pass .375 deep at 180 ipm/18k rpm and another at 130 ipm/13k rpm and got about the same results


I also don't use mil....I would say .080 is thou.



Feeds/speeds used were
1/8" Amana 46292-k
35ipm/18k

1/16" Amana 51441-k
35ipm/18k
With good results

 

[zeppelin0890]

onsrud 52-5xx series foam cutters? 52-564 is 1/4" with 2.25 LoC

Cutting 3" thick HDU is a unique special challenge, the most typical thing is to cut standard 2" thick HDU and despite being one of the most common things in the sign industry it is very difficult to get good information regarding bits, feeds and speeds. If you notice on this nice chart provided by Electricfly above, there are no bits on the list with a cutting length of 2" or more:

誕生日プレゼント ◆すぐ届く◆PIERRE HARDY◆アルファパッド ハンドバッグ 大◆ - precisionboard.com

【国産】 ◆すぐ届く◆PIERRE 大◆ ハンドバッグ HARDY◆アルファパッド 誕生日プレゼント

precisionboard.com

For years I cut 2" HDU on a Gerber Dimension 200 using 1/4" Gerber bits with no problem but when I got my Multicam 3000 I wanted to really up the game and come up with the best, fastest, cleanest finishing bits possible and unbelievably it's been a struggle. Being used to using 1/4" bits, wanting the least waste with the smallest kerfs and wanting the tightest radius corners, I was hoping to continue using 1/4" bits but Onsrud does not make one and I can't find another one anywhere except Gerber still makes one:

https://www.gerbertechnology.com/pdf/Routing-Engraving-Bit-Catalog.pdf

I must say however, that I haven't quite gotten the same result with my Multicam as I did with my Gerber router, there seems to be more vibration and the finish has not been as smooth. Now, if you are OK with using large expensive bits, you can find some 1/2" bits from various companies that have a cutting length of 2" or more. Recently I have been trying XEdge bits but even though they seem to be the perfect solution, I'm still trying to work out the perfect feeds and speeds and decide if these bits are the right choice. I have also used their ball nose bits with very good results but the straight end mill bits have given me some issues.

Home - X-Edge

www.xedgetools.com

onsrud 52-550 series foam cutters? 52-564 is 1/4" with 2.25 LoC

 

[James Burke]

Are you using air on the cutter? Depending on your speeds and feeds, a low-mass material like foam will not have the inertia to effectively exit the flutes like some metals.


JB

 

[zeppelin0890]

Are you using air on the cutter? Depending on your speeds and feeds, a low-mass material like foam will not have the inertia to effectively exit the flutes like some metals.


JB

Yes, I have an air nozzle blowing on the cutter and the vac running to attempt to collect the chips but they fly everywhere and I am also following the cutter my my hand held air gun blowing the chips out of the cut valley

 

[zeppelin0890]

Tried upping the speed and got a much nicer finish
130 Ipm /15k rpm

 

[James Burke]

Yes, I have an air nozzle blowing on the cutter and the vac running to attempt to collect the chips but they fly everywhere and I am also following the cutter my my hand held air gun blowing the chips out of the cut valley

Are you climb or conventional milling?


JB

 

[The Big Squeegee]

2 from OK

 

[GB2]

onsrud 52-5xx series foam cutters? 52-564 is 1/4" with 2.25 LoC


onsrud 52-550 series foam cutters? 52-564 is 1/4" with 2.25 LoC

That bit is not for cutting HDU it's for cutting styrofoam or something else, I've got a dozen of them and they do not work on HDU.