Suggestions Difficult Client. Just Want Opinions.

[DunbarPG]

I recently did 30 2x3 foamcore signs for a client. The signs are landscape, and have a centered logo. They wanted a white background. So, I simply die cut the logo and lettering, and applied in the center of the 30 signs. This is how I've always done signs when they want a white background. They looked fine, it was matte material so you could not tell it was a die cut logo just from looking at it. The customer now wants all 30 signs redone because they can feel the print on the sign. They want me to do a full bleed with white vinyl, and redo all 30. Am I wrong here, or is this how the majority of sign shops would have completed this order? It will take 3 times as much material to make these white signs white, and of course they want a discount.

 

[Billct2]

I don't understand why they have a problem with this. I don't use foamcore, hate the stuff, but would have done it the same as you on pvc.
Unless they specified the job for prints I don't see an issue.
How you handle it depends on whether are willing to lose on this job to keep the client happy or willing to lose the client (and maybe get some bad rep among those they know).

 

[oksigns]

This is how you've always done this project for them? and was never an issue in the past?

Their taste has changed; therefore, the scope of the project has changed as well! In the very beginning, the customer should have known about options and pricing, but your customer believes their end product is the same regardless of process, so I would put it on them in a nice business manner, "Your previous jobs were done in this manner, and to achieve this type of finish requires more material and labor."

If they gave me push back, I'd politely ask them why they changed their mind from previous orders where there were no cited comments. My ultimate goal would be to convince them that the literal feel of the sign does not mean a damn thing.

 

[DunbarPG]

I have discovered the problem after some prodding to the salesman. This client, although being a frequent customer in other departments of our shop, hasn't ordered signs in nearly two years. I took over the graphics department around 1 year ago. Before I came along with graphics experience, ALL of their signs were made by mounting Epson Poster prints with Spray Adhesive. So when they last got signs, they got poster paper spray glued to foamcore. I gave them a steak, and they prefer Dollar Tree Mystery Meat.

 

[Billct2]

In that case it sounds like you have a redo on your hands

 

[GaSouthpaw]

Ditto on hating that stuff!
To your question: Did they communicate to you what they wanted ahead of time via email? Or did they call and give you the classic, vague "I need a sign with my logo on it" line? It's a matter of what the customer was sold. If they asked for one thing and you gave them the opposite, then it's on you.
If they took the vague route (even via email), your quote spelled out what they were getting, and they signed off, it's on them for not asking- or saying- "no I want a full coverage decal." If you don't have a signed quote, and just assumed from their vaguery that they'd be okay with whatever you gave them- well, that's why signed quotes are important.
Of course, as Bill said, it's also a matter of whether it's worth ticking them off by refusing to redo them or discounting the redo- even with a signed quote, but the paperwork at least lets you say "look, it clearly says here... blah, blah, blah."
My .02 anyway.

Addendum: Okay, I see what happened now. I'd say it's on your salespeople for not writing it up correctly- or at least telling you what to produce!

 

[Starter]

I would have and always send a proof to the customer. How many times have we all heard of the customer saying "any Blue is fine". You pick a primary blue and the customer says redo it....I didn't want THAT COLOR BLUE!?...or in your case the customer had a different vison than you.
I always proof even if the customer seems irritated by it.

 

[DunbarPG]

Thanks Everyone. I did send a proof that was approved and signed off on. Due to it being white on white, you couldn't tell from the proof if it was a cut decal or full bleed print. You also couldn't set a full bleed print, and a die cut version of the sign beside each other and tell a difference. The only thing causing their distaste is being able to feel the edge of the print. There were never any specific instructions from the customer on wanting a full bleed. I don't get to make the decision on redoing it or not, since I'm only the Graphics manager/artist/producer/installer, not the salesman or owner. I just wanted reassurance in the fact that most shops don't print full bleed for a white background without it being specifically asked for. We are re-doing the job, I just really don't want to. A one man graphics dept. hardly has time to redo a job that size, over how it feels.

 

[Marlene]

when you say you die cut the logo and letters,what do you mean? really die cut or cut vinyl? is the sheen different between the background and the logo? is there white in the die cut/cut vinyl? if so that may be the problem as they may want the same sheen for all of the sign or the whites don't match up and look applied

 

[DunbarPG]

It is a full color logo. Printed and then contour cut with a thin white outline. I used matte finish vinyl on matte finish foamcore. They have no complaints about how the sign looks, only that they can feel the edges of the print when they run their hand across it. Which in my experience, Signs are for viewing, not feeling.

 

[Gino]

You're the new guy in this equation. Unknowingly, you changed the parameters and the client didn't get what he got in the past..... or was expecting. Therefore, it's on you/your company or whomever to do it as he's gotten in the past. If you can't sell him on keeping the old ones at perhaps some discounted amount, then get ready to do them over.

To tell you the truth, I don't think die-cut vinyl on foamcare is a good idea anyway. I hafta agree with your client.

 

[henryz]

If the signs are foam core, they are temporary to begin, you should tell them doing a full bleed was going to be % more... I would try to get out of it by saying this material can't be printed full bleed white because the foam gets ruined from the edges when you apply!

 

[Marlene]

sounds liek they really don't like the pasted on look. they say they can feel it when they run their hands over it, but I think that is because it looks put on and not part of the background. since it has a white outline, that only helps make it stand out as a decal applied

 

[d fleming]

Willing to bet you could have produced it a lot faster with a full mounted print rather than all the work cutting and taping something you printed on vinyl to begin with. You should get five of those from a 4x8 of foamcore, print six sheets, mount, cut, deliver.

 

[DunbarPG]

Ok....so i'm taking the general consensus is that die cutting is for decals, and i should full bleed print every sign I make?

 

[Gino]

Ok....so i'm taking the general consensus is that die cutting is for decals, and i should full bleed print every sign I make?

No, I don't think anyone has said that. Under your restrictions, conditions and capabilities of your shop on this particular project is what we're talking about. Nothing more..... nothing less. Every job will be different, so it will depend on many different variables almost each and every time. If you jump to conclusions like that, then maybe you should re-evaluate your position with the company. You came here seeking help.... and help is what you got. You screwed up by not knowing all the facts and jumped to a conclusion, however again, a wrong conclusion.

 

[bulldozer]

personally speaking, if you don't have a flatbed, never die-cut and stick a logo. it's going to cost you more in labor than it will extra vinyl. full bleed will you give you a nice clean finish.

what's this about crushing the corners? maybe stop using an asphalt roller to apply prints?

 

[DunbarPG]

You don't know me, my company, or my capabilities. I see you all the time on posts, and you are rarely helpful. Even if you have good advice, you try to talk to people like they are stupid and beneath you. I got an order for 30 signs, with a one day turn around. There were 0 instructions or requests for making it a full bleed. I got a proof approved, and moved forward with the job the way I thought best. A patient doesn't tell a doctor how to perform surgery, so I wouldn't expect to ask the client's advice on how to make a sign. IF they requested full bleed, they would have gotten full bleed. I didn't come here for help, I came here for opinions on how other shops would have made the signs. I had no instructions outside of we want this logo on this size sign. I didn't jump to a conclusion, I did my job. Sorry if you got confused.

 

[DunbarPG]

That last post was directed at Gino, not anyone else.

 

[Gino]

You don't know me, my company, or my capabilities. I see you all the time on posts, and you are rarely helpful. Even if you have good advice, you try to talk to people like they are stupid and beneath you. I got an order for 30 signs, with a one day turn around. There were 0 instructions or requests for making it a full bleed. I got a proof approved, and moved forward with the job the way I thought best. A patient doesn't tell a doctor how to perform surgery, so I wouldn't expect to ask the client's advice on how to make a sign. IF they requested full bleed, they would have gotten full bleed. I didn't come here for help, I came here for opinions on how other shops would have made the signs. I had no instructions outside of we want this logo on this size sign. I didn't jump to a conclusion, I did my job. Sorry if you got confused.

You are correct..... I don't know you. I can only go by what you say/write, and your profile. Based upon what you've said and contributed a little more information each time you post, if you take the emotions out of your end and just state facts, the job WAS furnished wrong. It was done on your watch. The other incidentals don't really matter to the client or your boss. It's the stuff that happened in between on your watch.

Quite honestly, I don't give one iota if you've seen me on the threads once or twice or 27,000 times. That has nothing to do with your inability to take criticism or opinions in the way they are meant. You wanna twist it around, go ahead if it makes you feel better, but remember...... if ya make a mistake, someone hasta pony up, so the only serious conclusion is..... who made the mistake ?? Looks like you.