Do you laminate your plain vinyl lettering?

[CKCUSTOMKC]

because what actually happens, in the real world, the sign lasts better than 5 years, (perhaps not much more) the customer feels disappointed, decides you cheated them with an "inferior product" & calls someone else in to replace it. perception is everything.

I actually agree with this, the main part of my business is vehicle wraps for catering trucks and most of the customers dont know how long the vinyl should last and they just expect it to last a lot longer than the vinyl is rated to last. I agree with the perception is everything especially when it comes to money and longevity of products

 

[Gino]

When we hand-painted signs, an average sign would last 15 to 20 years without a problem. That was usually a wooden sign properly prepped and then lettered with lettering enamels. When the vinyls came onto the scene, things suddenly changed and it was quite difficult telling people their signs would last only a few years. In reality, it hasn't gotten any better. It seems like we're duped into selling signs with a built-in obsolescence.

 

[netsol]

When we hand-painted signs, an average sign would last 15 to 20 years without a problem. That was usually a wooden sign properly prepped and then lettered with lettering enamels. When the vinyls came onto the scene, things suddenly changed and it was quite difficult telling people their signs would last only a few years. In reality, it hasn't gotten any better. It seems like we're duped into selling signs with a built-in obsolescence.

when i first got my gerber 4b in 1994, i lettered windows for a friend in the computer business. black and red vinyl
all but 1 line was first surface.

it still looked awfully good in 2018 when we took it down

1 line was second surface, and the reason it looked bad was because the adhesive had turned black

it seems that the gerber vinyls and the gerber edge foils last AN AWFUL LONG TIME, but, certainly not as long as a properly prepared painted sign

 

[CKCUSTOMKC]

When we hand-painted signs, an average sign would last 15 to 20 years without a problem. That was usually a wooden sign properly prepped and then lettered with lettering enamels. When the vinyls came onto the scene, things suddenly changed and it was quite difficult telling people their signs would last only a few years. In reality, it hasn't gotten any better. It seems like we're duped into selling signs with a built-in obsolescence

I wouldn't say duped, but technology had an advancement "opportunity", and then capitalism eventually forced the change with the offering of a cheaper alternative even though the alternative wasn't necessarily a good longevity option

 

[Gino]

You need to look at how much sun exposure that particular window received. Is there a roof or awning or anything protecting the vinyl from the elements ?? Gerber vinyls were basically 3M vinyls. The 220 line was made for gerber by 3M specifically for gerber.

 

[Gino]

Here's another thought. Why would you want any sign you sell to last more than 5 years? That is plenty long enough for the incredibly high value a sign provides the buyer. Say you charge $500 for a 4'X8' sign. That's less than $10 a month for the best advertising money can buy. You would be cheating yourself out of repeat business!

I wouldn't say duped, but technology had an advancement "opportunity", and then capitalism eventually forced the change with the offering of a cheaper alternative even though the alternative wasn't necessarily a good longevity option

People today tend to have this mindset and it's wrong. When something is told to you over and over and over again, it soon becomes the norm. Has nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism would be making a great product at a great price and making it to last, thus creating a great reputation for one's self and getting more and more NEW business. In my opinion, making something with less quality, less durability and more cost is not progress/technology opportunity. Computers, vinyl, digital printers and all the other bells and whistles only provided an avenue for hacks to come into an industry where they have no business sticking their nose. Nothing against people with no talents. Some people know how to learn and work at a trade, but for the most part..... take a look around. Not just here on s101, but the town you live in and if you're brutally honest with yourself, mostly only trash and ill-made signs come outta these shops these days.

 

[Billct2]

When wraps first appeared I had a lot of commercial customers that lost interest when I told them the price plus the (lack of) longevity. A guy that was used to vinyl lettering lasting the life of his truck wasn't interested in spending way more for something that may have to be replaced in a few years

 

[CKCUSTOMKC]

I will say this though, I think one of the benefits of vinyl for a small business marketing and branding perspective, is it kind of allows for a small business to rebrand every 5 years if they so choose

 

[Gino]

I will say this though, I think one of the benefits of vinyl for a small business marketing and branding perspective, is it kind of allows for a small business to rebrand every 5 years if they so choose

Sorry, what does this mean ?? You're forcing someone to do a facelift about every 4 to 6 years whether they want to/need to or not ?? That sounds like a foolish selling point to me.

Yes, mr & mrs so & so..... this $2,800 refrigerator should last at least 3 years. The warranty runs out after 2 years, unless you get an extended one which will be by the year. My parents had the same f=refrigerator for about ahh..... my whole life growing up. I had my first refrigerator for about 25 years. We put it down in the basement when we moved. It lasted another 15 years. Now, our present refrigerator aint sh!t and it's only about 4 years old.... big-piece-a-sh!t. Is that the kinda relationship you want with your customers ??

 

[netsol]

Sorry, what does this mean ?? You're forcing someone to do a facelift about every 4 to 6 years whether they want to/need to or not ?? That sounds like a foolish selling point to me.

Yes, mr & mrs so & so..... this $2,800 refrigerator should last at least 3 years. The warranty runs out after 2 years, unless you get an extended one which will be by the year. My parents had the same f=refrigerator for about ahh..... my whole life growing up. I had my first refrigerator for about 25 years. We put it down in the basement when we moved. It lasted another 15 years. Now, our present refrigerator aint sh!t and it's only about 4 years old.... big-piece-a-sh!t. Is that the kinda relationship you want with your customers ??

don't worry Gino, they fixed that problem with the refrigerators lasting TOO LONG

do you remember the thread where jburton and I told rocco g not to get rid of his 1986 air compressor? I WILL BET HE IS STILL USING IT, if he listened to us

did you ever see the website with the thomas edison 1913 light bulb? it was still burning AFTER 90 YEARS
then he wised up and made the ones that lasted 1000 hours

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Longevity comes at a price that puts people at a competitive disadvantage.
Wraps are tacky too, it seems to be more of an ego thing. Nice and clean lettering does the same thing and judging by the jumbled mess of wraps out there, might be even more effective. Of course this only matters if you believe that you're gonna build a customer base from people seeing your van rolling down the road.

 

[Gino]

They could make tires for vehicles and anything else last for decades, but then they'd sell them once and no one would ever come back. But that's not my point. My point is what we've been used to for signs, not freak happenings for other things.

Signs have been around a long time and were believed to last more than a half dozen years at best. It's almost embarrassing when people ask, how long will this lettering on my truck or my sign or anywhere last ?? Ya hafta go into which way the sun hits it, is it gonna get hit with a lotta snow or ice, will anyone be cleaning or touching it, how close to the equator do you live........ just so many particulars, it's just ridiculous.

 

[jcskikus]

Outta curiosity............. your profile shows you have less than a year's experience. That's fine, nothing wrong with that. We all started at some point, but how much time does your installer have??

Does he want you to.... first, laminate colored vinyls, then feed them into a cutting machine and then cut it all at once ?? Sounds like a novel idea, however expensive in material costs and timewise, plus an unnecessary step, since cast vinyl is already far better and longer lasting than any laminate can help. The laminate would probably burn it in many cases.

Had something similar like that happen by applying Avery Pewter 9yr vinyl over 3M Black reflective. The 3M soaked in so much heart, it burnt and aged the Avery in less than a year. My brainiac boss, at the time, thought I'd have to laminate the 9yr vinyl prior to cutting and install. Still burned because the heat was coming from the backside as the reflective held and reflected the heat to the back of the pewter.

 

[printhog]

because what actually happens, in the real world, the sign lasts better than 5 years, (perhaps not much more) the customer feels disappointed, decides you cheated them with an "inferior product" & calls someone else in to replace it. perception is everything.

the reality is that after they buy a sign they ignore it. vehicle graphics only come off when they trade-in for a new vehicle, and site signs degrade until they're illegible. People are cheap.

 

[printhog]

The only times I've ever overlaminated cut (unprinted) vinyl was when I did inlay work with my flatbed. Some for fire engines one job for fuel trucks. Both involved complex logos with Scotchlite, printed Scotchlite, and multiple types of in-house produced hand-gilded vinyl. One was 8 inlays - 4 of 3m vinyl, three types of leaf (23k, 18k, palladium) on vinyl, and Scotchlite. I added a .25" overlaminate bleed to seal it all up. Installed fine and lasted for vehicle life. Both those projects were insanely pricey and involved a ton of work at the flatbed inlaying the films over other layers that had been cut and weeded, and they required being able to withstand constant washing and not lose tiny details. I DID NOT want to remake them for a piece falling out.