Eagle Scout Project - Sign in Mojave Desert

[Sign33]

Hi Signs

Thank you for this forum. This is a great resource.

My son is building a sign for his Eagle Scout project for a facility that is deep in the Mojave Desert. It is 4’ x 4’ and will also be 4’ off the ground raised by two 2.5” galvanized steel poles (pipes) with 4’ concrete footings.

the sign has a backing of 3/4” MDO plywood and raised letters also cut from 3/4” MDO plywood and glued/tacked down. An engineer friend did the pole and footing calcs for him to verify a wind load of 120mph, but now he is working on how to seal and finish so it lasts in the harsh conditions of the desert.

his current plan is to cut and fully sand and then use two coats of West Systems epoxy to seal and protect the wood. We use this to lay up fiberglass rockets and it is used to protect wood on boats. After the resin (sanded down) he would use a primer, two coats of premium latex paint, and then a strong UV varnish top coat (clear).

given the unique environment, does this sound like a good strategy? Is there any better way to help a wood sign in the desert last longer?

thank you ahead of time.

-Mike

 

[Gino]

I would sooner be leery of wooden signs in the desert taking abuse from erosion from dust storms than the problems of rotting and whatnot. I think a sign made of metal, like steel or stainless, would be a much better idea. The temps, high sun and sandblasting like condition exposure will most likely wear the wood and glues out long before it deteriorates. Whatever your use for your products have, don't seem to be of any use in the desert...... boats...... rockets. The varnish will just burn what's ever under it in those conditions.

Good luck.

 

[mpn]

Metal is the only thing that will hold up for any amount of time. It will still get shot up too.

 

[visual800]

I would do this out of .080 aluminum with 1/4" thick routed aluminum lettering with aluminum posts.

MDO is only good for making easels in shops and possibly real estate signs, it wont have a chance in the desert envronment

 

[jimbug72]

I agree that metal would certainly hold up the longest. Based on the "We use this to lay up fiberglass rockets" portion of your post I'm assuming you have access to a surplus of West Systems epoxy either for free or at low cost. Not knowing your budget for the project I would also consider trying to reach out to some sign shops in the Mojave Desert area with your plans and get the opinions of folks with hands on experience with the longevity of various sign components in that particular region..

 

[Billct2]

Sounds like your material and fabrication options are already set, so your finishing methods are OK. Drop the final coat of varnish, that will fail before the paint. My suggestion would be to add a little roof to try to keep the direct sun off it.

 

[2B]

there are other materials that will last longer outdoors.
have you looked at Gemini?
https://www.geminisignproducts.com/

If MDO has to be used, it does need to have a cover over it to block the sun.
the UV is your biggest adversary.

 

[ams]

I don't recommend wooden signs.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Long lasting sign for harsh conditions.....White acrylic with support back ground panel.Black acrylic cut out letters glued on.

 

[StarSign]

Polycarve.....

 

[The Hobbyist]

We know this:

Signs in the desert are TARGETS for shooters..

The desert is HARD on anything man made.

So have letters cut out of AR steel, and weld them to thick chains. They WILL be shot. They WILL survive!

 

[Sign33]

Thank you all. Bill was correct, unfortunately the materials were already set and It was a question of finish. The MDO is already cut and CNC logo/letters cut. Wood was a good way for a scout to build, but in hindsight not the material for the desert. The two 3” steel posts and concrete footings will survive, but the sign will deteriorate fast (and get shot up). The sign will be structurally strong with a 1.5” frame and 1.5” thick in most places (two layers of 3/4” MDO glued/nailed together).

so, the revised plan on the finishing is three coats of West Systems epoxy on the bare wood. Then one coat of epoxy primer and then 3 coats of polyurethane paint (Brightside) with UV stabilizers. Our bet is that the polyurethane paint will hold up better than the latex paint. This is the same approach to protecting wood on the open seas. Albeit, a more humid environment but equally harsh from the sun and elements.

 

[Gino]

That's a shame. A shame that he must use materials known before making the sign and investing any further money or time on said sign will delaminate, and fall apart far too soon for a project that could easily last 10 or 15 years..... using the proper materials. Being a scout, he might have the upper hand by explaining these circumstances he has found out coming into the game late, but can at least warn and maybe divert a 100% disaster and still give them something worth honoring a merit badge. Teaching a young mind to just do what you're told, even though you know it's wrong is not a good value to instill upon such a person. Give him some integrity and speak up for what he knows is the right thing to do.

This business about..... if it's good enough for the high seas or rockets, it must be good for the desert...... is hogwash. Over my 47 years in this business I've used my fair share of two part boat glues for making my own blanks and sandblasting, carving and just making larger panels. They've lasted over 30 & 40 years, with little to no evidence of fatigue.

This project is for a young man, trying to learn how to make a sign, the old fashioned way, so therefore your total and complete lack of knowledge on the subject should be removed from your storyline. He should be here, learning what to do and not second hand from however you interpret it.

Your backer board, letters and anything else made from the wood should have all the edges filled, sanded and then sealed. After that, two good coats of primer a day apart...... and latex primer is preferred. You are creating a surface for the paint to bite into. A good oil-based paint for the remaining top coats should be applied to all sides and edges 3 times. This gives the edges 6 coats. A light sanding of 600 grit paper in between all top coats and tacking should be used for best results. After all surfaces are dry, screw the letters from the backside and countersink them slightly and fill it is with more paint. No clear coat or anything else will/should be needed. Expect 4 or 5 years out of this set up. Epoxy paint(s) are usually used when carving into wooden signs. It is not at all suited for dry extremely hot situations. Another of your boat falacies.

Good luck to your kid, cause he's gonna need it.

 

[Johnny Best]

 

[Sign33]

Yes, it has been a great learning experience for him. Exactly the objective of an Eagle project.

His adventure started by meeting with a local sign maker. The guy makes signs for the local churches and some schools. He works with wood and explained how to cut the raised letters with a band saw. He recommended certain hardwoods but also recommended going to a hardwood supplier. Also recommended basic finishes.

He then went to four different lumber/wood suppliers. Each had a different opinion, but ultimately another “expert” at one of the largest wood suppliers in Southern California recommended MDO.

While shopping for the metal posts at an industrial metal supply store he spoke with another sign maker. He insisted the best approach was to make the sign from metal and weld it.

He then worked with an engineer to calc the wind loads. The engineer who does sign and traffic light calcs said his approach with wood would be fine, but he had to really research the finishes.

He bought wood and started working.

Then... He went to four paint stores. Dunn Edwards, Home Depot, an auto body paint shop, and West Marine. All The “experts” gave him different recommendations, usually based on what they sold, but two of them directed him to marine finishes being the absolute strongest and longest lasting.

So... he was not forced into anything. He has done more research than reasonably expected. The lesson he learned is, “ask ten people and get five different answers.”

His sign will be great and may last 5-10 years, but the lessons will last a lifetime.

Ironically, the sign is not even the main project. It was supposed to be the easier “side project”.

Thank you for everyone’s input.

 

[ddarlak]

mount a target off the side of the sign...